Ep 164: The Power of Knowledge with Dr. Taraneh Nazem and Carissa Simek
Fertility Forward Episode 164:
Here on the Fertility Forward podcast, we often say that knowledge is power — and that you are your own best advocate! Joining Rena and Dara on the show today are two passionate guests who are dedicated to educating women about infertility, fertility benefits, healthcare coverage, and women’s health. We’re thrilled to welcome Dr. Taraneh Nazem, a double board-certified Reproductive Endocrinologist, Infertility Specialist, and Obstetrician-Gynecologist at RMA of New York’s Westside office, along with Carissa Simek, one of Dr. Nazem’s patients. In today’s episode, Carissa opens up about how her desire for better fertility coverage led her to change jobs — and the incredible fertility journey she’s walked with Dr. Nazem. They discuss the panel discussions they’ve led, the catalyst behind Carissa’s decision to preserve her fertility, and how advocating for fertility education has empowered Carissa in her own life. We also explore the conversation around freezing eggs versus embryos, the biggest challenges Dr. Nazem faces in her field, and how infertility treatments can impact daily life. For all this and much more, don’t miss this insightful conversation!
Rena: i everyone, we are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Dara: Today we have on our podcast two guests, Carissa Simek, who's an RMA patient who's worked closely with Dr. Nazem, who is an advocate for fertility preservation. So we're very happy to have both of you on today to speak about your experience together.
Carissa: Thank you for having us. We're excited to chat with you.
Rena: Yay. Welcome. Before the episode, we were all having some fun with the three of us wearing glasses and joking.
Dara: Forgot mine at home.
Rena: It's Carissa, not Clarissa. She did not explain it all, but she is going to explain to us how she came here and what she did in terms of fertility 'cause I think it's a pretty incredible story.
Carissa: Yeah, so I think that it started, gosh now we're talking 20, the end of 2022. So that's really when I had my first consult. But I think it really started before that when I was thinking about going through this process and really I grew up working in the retail industry and benefits weren't great and it wasn't covered. And so I think for me, I had to shift my career in order to have this as a benefit that was covered and, and then once you know, I shifted my job and my career, I was able to then start the process. So taking it back a little bit was really a shift in my personal career because I wanted to go forward with this.
Rena: Wait, so you specifically changed your career to get….
Carissa: Yeah, it was, it was part of it, yeah, it was definitely a selling point for me to switch careers and then also like I just was really fed up with like the retail industry. It's quite tough. But yeah, it was definitely, it was one of the top three things I was looking for when I switched jobs.
Rena: Wow, that's amazing. That also speaks to the fact that our country really needs to improve healthcare.
Carissa: Yeah, I mean I think it's sad too. I have a bunch of friends that still I met throughout my career in retail and they're thinking how do I do this? Knowing that they're in their mid thirties-ish, early to mid thirties. And I mean I have friends that are potentially looking at getting a job at Starbucks 'cause Starbucks covers it to some extent…as a second job, people that, I have a friend that's going through infertility right now and has maxed her benefit within a company that provides a little bit of coverage, not great, but similarly was looking to shift her career again to get additional coverage. So it's pretty sad that we're at a place where women are shifting or changing their careers or uprooting their lives potentially to seek coverage.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah, you know, it's interesting - we're always talking about like access to care and how do we get people, you know, where they need to go, but this is a piece that, you know, we talk about but don't talk about it so much that the financial piece is the biggest barrier to getting treatment. For sure. There's been so much change since 2022 and or 2021 whenever you like made that first shift. But still we have so far to go. It's not something that everybody has and like you're alluding to, there's some people who have very small amount of benefits so their, you know, employers are technically participating, but it's not to a degree that actually really can make an impactful difference. So it's actually not a crazy thing to be job hunting. This is a competitive benefit that a lot of companies are generous about and a lot are not. So I feel bad for all your friends in the retail industry who are, you know, slower to come up the come up the, the chain of access.
Rena: Yeah, I mean I think a positive spin is that more and more people are talking about it and more and more companies are being forced to, you know, to be competitive to offer benefits. I think we have such a long way to go, but even as you're saying, you know, I, I do think there's such a difference from 2022 to now and so hopefully, you know, we'll go to 2028 and say wow, so much has changed since 2025. And
Dr. Nazem: I really, you're right.
Rena: Yeah. But I think it's because of people, you know, like Carissa, like us working, raising our voices saying like, we deserve better.
Dr. Nazem: Absolutely. Carissa is like the number one champion of all things fertility - fertility, access to care, et cetera. And she's done unbelievable amount of stuff I think at where she works to help to encourage people to talk about it. She's been an open book, which I think is like the number one thing that you can help somebody with. It doesn't matter about their benefits but for them to just be informed and it's wonderful.
Rena: Yeah. So tell us about you and your fertility story and journey.
Carissa: Yeah. I think it all started with really, it's funny, we talk about like shopping doctors, finding the right person. I only had one consultation, so really great work on our behalf 'cause we just like, you know, it just worked out. Yeah,
Rena: Love at first sight.
Carissa: Yeah, truly. I think that part of it too was like, it was such a weird time and I think back about when we were kind of on like getting out of this covid period and we, you know, we had our consults and I was going into the office of RMA, like we were in masks. Like it was a different ball game than it is now because even for something so personal to be kind of buying a mask and feel like less approachable, it was just like a, it was a weird time. But I think regardless of that it was important for me to go through the process. I went through two rounds of egg retrievals because I had to really squeeze 'em in because I was training for the New York Marathon at the time. So had to, to get that done. It was tough. The first round was a little funky for me. I definitely had some weird like side effects that go away of course - the bloating, all of those fun things. But for someone that's active, I think it was interesting to look back and see how much it affected me. I was a big runner at the time, still sort of am, but it was a lot to go through and then you're kind of going through it by yourself. And so I think that's a huge reason. While I am so open, I had a friend FaceTime me and she was asking about shots and so she was just like there on screen was like, I need help. How do I mix the medicines? Not that I am a nurse by any means, but like I can tell her how to mix all of the shots and stuff. So I think that that really kick started this journey. And then once I found out about how impactful this was, looking back I wanted to pay it forward. And we've had so many amazing conversations at work where I don't think it's necessarily been talked about. I mean we've had three sessions and to see the volume and growth and participation where Dr. Nazem’s come in and we've had great informative sessions talking about fertility, talking about benefits, what have, you to see that grow from a table of 25 to 30 people to then the next was about a hundred and then to the most recent one we held, which I think there was over 300 people that joined virtually and in the rooms? It was, it's great to see that people are talking about it and willing to be more open. And I think that speaks to also just letting people know these benefits exist in their workplace which may they may or may not have known prior.
Rena: That's amazing. So you came in to do egg freezing.
Carissa: Yes.
Rena: And then you are raising your voice and being open about it at work, talking about it. And now you've grown these panel discussions for women in your workplace to join, get informed, and hopefully preserve their fertility. That's incredible.
Carissa: Yeah, it's been a labor of love between me and Dr. Nazem. There's been a lot that goes into these events and there's been a lot of great feedback from people that have attended them. Honestly I think people didn't even realize that these were benefits that the workplace offered. So that's one. And then they didn't realize that, which I think is funny looking back now. But like I also didn't know a lot about my own fertility and women fertility and the women's health and all of these things that ladder into this process. And during these panel discussions we, you know, I talk through potentially a patient's out our point of view I guess if that's part of it. And then Dr. Nasm gives a presentation on women's health and why this is important. And so I think a lot of the feedback we get is just people didn't know what they didn't know and people and women are undereducated in their own bodies and what to look forward to and how to go about the process.
Rena: Well we always say on this podcast, knowledge is power. And let me ask you too, what was your, you know, I think so many times women only find out about fertility treatment, right? When there's a problem, like they've been trying and it's not happening and then, oh okay, I need to seek help. I think more and more women now because of people like you are preemptively egg freezing. But for you, what was the catalyst to say I wanna preserve my fertility?
Carissa: I think New York is a tough place. I was, I'm still single. I think that it, it's tough. I think people focus on their careers here because often they have to because it's an expensive city. And I think that at the time I think people just prioritize their life differently, especially in big, big cities. And so for me, I wasn't getting any younger and I knew that I wanted kids. So in order to somewhat protect that I was, you know, this was the route I had to go and I was the first person in my larger friend group that was doing this at the time. I mean it was still not really as talked about as is today, which is great. I feel like you've just said that knowledge is power and I think having these conversations is so important because again, people don't know what they don't know. And so sharing it and having panels and having open conversations. I know RMAs also hosted some events on the west side office and I've had a bunch of friends that are outside of my company that have just wanted to get informed and learn. And that was a great avenue for them to attend and and learn as well.
Rena: I think that's super brave. You know, I think so many women, you know, so many of my clients, I have a lot of egg freezing clients and so much of it is, you know, the psychological about not being where you wanna be, not having a partner, bringing up feelings of loneliness. It can be super tough. So I think the fact that you're talking about it and you know, I always say it's the strongest thing we as women have to preserve our fertility, right? It's the most medically advancing we have is egg freezing. And so I think that's super powerful that you did that on your own. You were the first, you were the sort of pioneer it sounds like, in your group.
Dr. Nazem: She continues to do it. I mean Carissa's just such an amazing connector. I think that she is definitely was a trailblazer and continues to sort of forge more and more sort of advancement in this area. And it's exactly, this is what we need in our industry to help to launch things forward. I mean we, we can only, you know, do so many publicity things or talks or whatever, but it's the conversations that are happening outside of the room that are just as powerful and important among, among girlfriends, among family members, friends, you know, whatever colleagues. And I think what started as just sort of like this personal interest that she had really launched into this whole other thing that she does and I, I've had a lot of people who've said like, you know, why, why and how is all of this happening? And it's not for any kind of monetary gain. It's really because I believe, at least for me, I've seen that Carissa really cares about it and in a way that I care about it, that you two care about it. It's a very unique and impressive thing that she does to help to encourage people, you know, take control of this part of your life and like, this is how it felt for me. And I think being open like that is, is exactly what we need to really launch this in a bigger way beyond just what we can do in a, you know, one hour lecture.
Rena: Sure. I was gonna say for you, is it making you feel empowered that you're able to do this and you know, maybe this wasn't your vision for yourself, but look at everything you've done and it's, is this helping you feel empowered and and in control?
Carissa: Yeah, it definitely, I mean it sort of fell into my lap. Like I went through the process and after going through it, I just felt so strongly that people should be aware of a) if the benefit exists in their workplace, whether it's mine or it's a friend that doesn't work with me. But b) also I think a lot of it was that I didn't, I went into this so under-undereducated myself and so having these conversations is important and I just believe in sharing about it. I've had countless conversations whether it's, again, in my workplace or not and I'm always happy to do so 'cause I think there's people that still maybe don't wanna talk about it, which is totally fine. This is everyone's own journey, but I think the more that I can be open about it, it's something that I am more than willing to do 'cause I, I just truly believe in sharing the knowledge.
Dara: I love that you have the human side of it - how you said, you know, it was hard. I'm such a runner and I couldn't run and you know, I felt in some ways very alone, which I was thinking, you know, coming out of COVID, which in and of itself was quite a, a challenging time doing something that was new for you. You said you didn't have any other friends that you really knew that were going through this. So that in itself I'm sure was a lot. So even sharing your experiences and, and maybe what could be helpful for people in your path. You know, making sure that they have support, that they ask questions, you know, if they can't work out, finding another avenue to really help with their, their mind and body connection.
Carissa: Yeah, I think the one thing too that is super important when I talk to people, because although my experiences was great in the end, I think that it's still a challenging process. And I think the one thing that I always try and hit home on is like, if something happened to me or I had a weird side effect or whatever it may be, is that every body is going to react or be so different and go through this process in a different way. And I think that's the one thing. And I've had countless conversations with friends and when I was going through it, there were a few of my friends doing it and they were like, I'm getting 25 eggs. I'm doing like, and I think to an extent those conversations can kind of be challenging because you feel like you're up against these numbers and this process and it's not always going to be rainbows and butterflies. Like you're gonna have side effects. Some people are gonna have worse side effects than others. So I think it's important to have those conversations that it's, it's just gonna be different for everyone that goes through this. But having friends that support you along the way is helpful.
Dr. Nazem: Absolutely. I think these like open forum and the discourse is so great, but there's always a downside to it. And that I think people are like, we were saying it before we even started this. So self-critical and always comparing and it's sort of unfair to compare, I, I always say, you know, your egg count's kind of like your shoe size. It's not something you can really change. It's different from person to person. You gotta kind of work with with what you got. But it's easier to say, harder to really believe and internalize and you know, these women as particularly I think can be really hard on themselves and you know, constantly cross comparing. Not to make big generalizations, but I do feel that that happens a lot. And so there's always some drawbacks to it. And I think like Carissa, you're just so good about being sensitive to everybody in the room, so you're just the perfect person to help friends kind of talk about it in a safe way. But I, I even feel like in the events that we've done and your work environment, that it has somehow snowballed and like you've gotten, you've encouraged more and more people to really seek it out and more and more people who've already done it to come and talk about it, which has helped the community. And I, I felt, especially in our last event, just how engaged the audience was and how open people were to talking and sharing their experiences. Like during the Q&A usually people are asking a lot of questions. A lot of people are like, I'm happy to talk about my experience Yeah, that would be helpful. You know, and I think that's what we need more of in every avenue of our lives, you know, it's just so great. People are being positive and cheerleaders for each other.
Carissa: I completely agree.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah.
Rena: Amazing. Yeah, I think it's so important for women to lift up women and share. I know the new thing is Reddit threads, which I think can be great or not great. I think people go on Reddit, either those super connected. Or they go on Reddit and get stuck in this rabbit hole and bad. I'm
Dr. Nazem: Apparently that is the new forum everyone.
Rena: I keep hearing about it. Oh, I found you on Reddit. Someone talked about you on Reddit. You know, I, oh I found someone on Reddit that had my case.
Dr. Nazem: Have to admit, I have not done a dive myself. I'm like scared to, I have
Dara: There's a lot of good, good content, but there's a lot. I think
Dr. Nazem: Yeah. Yeah. I think it, I think that's really the hardest thing, which is why it's so good, good to have these more personal conversations with somebody who actually went through the experience who's grounded in what that was. Because online it's very hard to suss out like what's real, what was unique, what's common. I usually tell patients I'm never gonna discourage you from looking online and doing your own research. That's na natural and go ahead and do it, but take it with a grain of salt and also come back to me with questions so that you don't feel like you're getting misguided. But yeah, no, it's helpful for real patient experiences to be out there.
Carissa: Yeah, I think that that point is so funny 'cause I remember, well you and I had a long conversation because I was in a black hole of Googling and I think I came to your office, I literally brought my laptop. I'm like, so sorry, this is like crazy that I'm doing this, open my laptop. And I think I had a word doc of questions. I was like, what about this? How about this? I read this and you were like, no, no, no, but let's talk through all of them. I mean, we spent an hour plus talking through these like questions I had about, oh well should I split up my eggs and store them in different places? What if there's a natural disaster? What, like the questions I had from reading and going down all of these Reddit ish threads, it was a laundry list of questions. But I think that that goes back to finding a doctor that you get along with and like, and have conversations. Because I think that sometimes patients can be dismissed in those types of settings. But you literally, you sat with me for like an hour and we talked through every bullet point on my, my word doc and got through it all. So no, I just,
Dr. Nazem: I'd like to see that document again!
Carissa: I would be, I wonder if I can, maybe I'll try and find that!
Dr. Nazem: Maybe I shouldn't have asked!
Rena: Master list of questions everyone asks it not like the master list of questions everyone. So maybe everyone that thread go back
Dr. Nazem: And say it's direct from the source. These are the answers, right?
Rena: You're the answer. Everything you needed to know. Ready, here you go.
Carissa: Yeah, totally.
Dr. Nazem: No, but you're not the first, nor will you be the last to ask those questions. And they're actually not crazy questions. They're things that really burn all of us. And like you can't stop thinking about and it's hard to know how, how can the internet answer that? You know, it's not, it's not straightforward but, and also I think a lot of those questions are good questions to ask and you'll get a different answer from different people, but also about each person. What my answer to you might be different than my answer to Rena. You know, like with the same question, it has to do with situational, it's personal and I think that's what personalized medicine is, is like answering what matters to you and and in a way that's relevant to you.
Rena: Well and I think to your point, it's important to find a provider who understands the efficacy in that and not to be medically gaslit. You know, and I do a lot of patient advocacy and work with patients to both help them unpack like, okay, let's go through your anxieties and figure out what really are questions for your medical provider. How can we sort of compartmentalize all of these things? But then also to work with a provider who gives you the time, who answers the questions doesn't make you feel bad for asking them because, and I think that's what's so important. You wanna find someone that understands, gives you the time, gives you compassionate care and doesn't, you know, again, sort of just medically gaslight you because anxiety is normal. It comes up, it's important to advocate for yourself, get your questions answered. This is a really important process. It's a lot of time and money and for something super important and to find someone you know who gets that.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah, I mean we've talked about it. I mean you even mentioned, Carissa, at the top of this conversation that, you know, you were assuming you were gonna do more shopping around. I feel very lucky that I was the chosen one. But I always say that, you know, it's okay to shop around for the right doctor. This is a very personal thing. You need somebody who's going to get you the results. Of course you want a high quality experience in good lab and all of that, but you should also feel that you have some kind of comfort and chemistry with this person. I think it's a little different because this is such a sensitive topic and like you're saying Rena, like it's so important to feel heard and understood as you're going through this process. Particularly like Chris is saying that you know, it felt a little lonely and who else are you gonna ask those questions of? You know, it'd be very awful for me to just be like, that's dumb. Move on later. Figure it out. You know? Yeah. Like it's not very, I think it is good to find that fit.
Carissa: Yeah, I completely agree.
Rena: Any future plans for you in terms of your work or yourself?
Carissa: Oh, future plans. I don't know. I mean I'm running the London Marathon in a few months I guess. Yeah. So that's fun job wise. Lifewise, I mean I feel like New York is home right now, so planning on staying here, hopefully, you know, still trying to find someone. So that's fun. I think that I will say a part of this process, which I think is so important to highlight, is that there is a point of removing some pressures that are potentially external pressures to settle down and have kids, because I've now done this. Like I have the ability to not just settle for potentially someone that is not a great fit or a subpar human, which are a lot of guys in New York City unfortunately. So I think that that is something too. And it gives people the opportunity to take a step back and figure out what they really want. And I know we talked about this, I think it was in the last forum when we had the panel at at my work. But we talked about also having a sperm donor moving forward the next step. And I think the one thing that was super important and a great takeaway from that, Dr. Nazem, you can definitely elaborate, is if you make it shared property, it becomes another step in the process process. And I think that that's also important to understand that it's okay just to freeze eggs if you're not entirely certain of what you want. But I think that's a huge point that a lot of people thought about for sure.
Rena: I love that women empowerment piece and, and all of that. I, you know, I work with a lot of clients who are in relationships and they struggle with, should I freeze eggs? Should I freeze embryos? And it becomes a real conversation.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah. I mean we bring up, you know, at each juncture in this process, tough questions. So couples don't have it easy either. They have to really address like, okay, this is, this is actually a serious commitment. This is joint property. What are we gonna do if this, if that, you know, somebody passes unexpectedly or they break up or they finish their family and what are they gonna do to discard? And these are complicated questions that most people aren't thinking about as their family planning and it's not the happy side of things, but they're so critical. Sorry, the questions are so critical and important to think about and address. And so I think that's why a lot of these, like your podcast is incredible in, in disseminating information about things that people weren't really thinking about. And that's like one of them. And I feel that when I go and give these talks, people always ask interesting questions and it brings up a whole bunch of other things that, you know, you might have been more worried about X, Y, Z and then somebody peaked their, your interest with something else. So I think it's, it is important. And the egg versus embryo thing is just, it's so hard for couples. I mean I have married couples who do egg freezing. I have people who are just been dating three months doing embryo banking. Like, everybody's different. It's so personal and I feel like I do spend a lot of time and I'm sure, Rena, you do a ton of this sort of talking through what is the right fit 'cause it's very really, it is a completely personal decision in the end. I should never be making that decision for somebody.
Rena: Sure. I think also it's important to remember is, you know, nothing's permanent per se, right? You can make a choice that's good for you in this moment, right? Maybe you are with someone but you don't feel comfortable freezing embryos and you decide to freeze eggs. Okay, maybe in a few months you decide to freeze embryos with that person. Maybe it's the reverse. Maybe you're with someone, you freeze embryos a few months later, you wanna freeze eggs to just always remember you have choices and you have power and you know, of course, right? That's a lot of my job is helping people unpack that and and come to decisions that work for you in the present. Just kind of being here now. But you know, nothing's ever permanent and you always have options, you know, and the power of choice.
Carissa: Yeah, definitely. I completely agree. I mean, even one of the questions I had, because I think the biggest thing or the biggest uncertainty about this whole thing is that you don't know the quality of the eggs. And so there was a point where I was like, God, do I get a sperm donor and just like check a few and like see where I'm at, I, what do I do? Like how am I gonna go forward not knowing that, you know, maybe I end up a lucky one and have a ton of embryos at the end of this when I get to that point in my life. But I think that that's also something that people potentially might not know a lot about, that the eggs and the technology we're dealing with today, like there is no way to test them. And I'm sure Dr. Nazem can also speak to that.
Dr. Nazem: No, it's a big, it's a big problem. I mean the number one drawback of what I do is not being able to test egg quality and the limitations that puts on us in terms of this not being a guarantee, right? I think it's important for everybody to, it's putting something out there that wouldn't be there otherwise, but it's not an absolute slam dunk. And so, you know, I think it's important that you understand that, that everybody else understands that. And I do get a lot of people asking about like, well, should I just test a few just to know? But the irony of that is, is a small little test of a few of them may not be proof of concept. Like how do you know it's gonna be uniform across the board? There's variability. This is the hardest part about fertility and fertility planning and the preservation part. But hopefully our technology will get better. I'm really hoping at least during my career, will have this option.
Dara: Yeah, I think it's great that at least there's this discussion and think that's why it's so important to work closely with your RE working closely with a therapist or getting support. I mean, having these conversations, but the, these are great conversations to be had and I I'm really hoping that both of you continue to have these, you know, sit on these panels, have these conversations with colleagues, friends, people in your community. And I'm hoping also as time goes on, when we do have more knowledge, when we do have more research that we can also share this news. But I, I think this, this conversation is great in that I think you're gonna help reassure a lot of people in your wake. It's wonderful.
Carissa: Yeah. I think that it's definitely becoming more talked about, but I think having real conversations and removing barriers and, and just laying it all out is so important. So I am so excited to, you know, continue knowledge sharing and I will definitely continue to do this as long as Dr. Nazem will have me.
Dr. Nazem: It's more of the reverse as long as you'll put up with me. So it's very fun to do these events with Carissa.
Carissa: Yeah, I'm, I'm a good time. I mean, no, I think that it's like, it's so important and we have, you know, we have a great bond and we're able to present and talk to people and really dive into the human aspect of it, which I think having that relatable aspect of both myself and and her are, are great. And the way we can tag team those conversations are so important because we have different perspectives, perspectives 'cause we've gone through it in different ways or you know, our careers are very different. Like there are a magnitude of things and people that we can speak to because we come from different angles of the process.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah. I think it's always like, you know, I'm saying like, oh, it's so easy. It's just two weeks and then, and these are the only side effects. And then you're like, okay, but like, let me unpack this for you. Yeah. I'm like, it was really hard to not marathon train and I felt massive, you know? I think the human aspect needs to be shared along with my medical version of things, but you know, I think that people come in with these terrors that this is gonna be the most horrific experience ever. So I'm trying to lighten it up and Carissa’s being real about it. So it's just, it's a good balance of things. But I think it's so, it's so nice to have that more personal touch with your personal experience and how you felt and the fears you had going into it, what you worried about afterwards. Like, all that stuff I think is less talked about in a more formal setting. I think the stuff that I talk about is important, but yes, you can get it pretty succinctly from multiple sources. You sort of provide the comfort and openness for somebody to, to maybe do something they might have been a little scared of or something.
Carissa: Yeah, it's funny, you're like, it's two weeks, which it is, it totally is two weeks. But I'm like, oh boy.
Dr. Nazem: The side effects lingered
Carissa: Yeah, the, I I was one of the lucky ones that got like severely bloated, so that was fun for me to live through that. And like people stand up for me on the subway and I'm like, I am not with child. I am just very bloated right now. So that was fun to do during summer.
Dr. Nazem: Then, take a seat anyway. That's fine.
Rena: Yeah. I was gonna say, what about a mindset shift? Done that though, to say like, this is hard. Someone should give up a seat for you, right? You're going through this, you're bloated, you're uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Nazem: You know the difference because a lot of people say this to me when they're doing egg freeze and they're like, oh my God, I now understand what it's like to be pregnant. And oh my God, I look like I'm, you know, six months pregnant and all stuff. And I'm like, yeah, but the difference is is all of that happened to your body in two weeks, whereas like in a pregnant woman, it's over months that's slowly, slowly happening. So that like stretch and pull and fullness and discomfort, the back pain, you kind of get used to it through pregnancy, but with egg freezing it's like bam. I think that that, there's shock value to that.
Rena: Yeah, it's hard. It's super hard. Yeah.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah. That's why we need a community around everybody going through it and, and support. You have to like kind of know what I always say. I mean, there's not that many restrictions. You can still go out and do things, but some people just may not want that.
Rena: Yeah. But I can relate to Carissa as a fellow runner marathoner. Mm, yeah. To take two weeks off, that's like, oh God, I need, oh my
Dr. Nazem: Oh my God, you have to change your, your whole entire schedule for the whole year.
Rena: Yeah. That's your life. That's tough. It's really hard.
Dr. Nazem: I know I have a bunch of marathoner patients and I feel like I'm like negotiating between their different races. I'm like, oh, then I'm doing, actually Carissa was one of them. She's like, I'm gonna do a triathlon also, they're just like, for fun in between these two marathons. I'm like, okay, so when are we doing this? But there are ways, there are ways to stay active, but it is, it is,
Rena: There definitely are, there are definitely are ways to stay active and keep moving your body and Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Nazem: Yeah. No, it's, it's good you have to, this is important too though. And I think you have to, you have to figure out in your list of priorities where this falls. And it may not be the number one, but if it's at the top, close to the top of the list, then you just gotta make the correct
Rena: And you're in and out, right? It's two weeks. So you're just prepare, mentally prepared, it's two weeks and then you're done. So Yeah. Yeah.
Carissa: Yeah. And I think there's, that's, I mean that's the part of it, too, is where does it fall on your priority list? And also I think that for as much of those two weeks could potentially linger. There were things that I just knew I was doing after work, so I had to bring my shots to work or I had to, like, I was doing other extracurricular activities outside of my day-to-day job. So like, there's ways to live your life around this. It's not like you just, or, I mean, if you wanna stay home, fine doing that as well. But I was someone that just needed activity in some regard. So you can do whatever you need as long as you're not, like, running or doing HIIT training or any of those things. But I think that that's important too, is like the, and this is kinda what I was talking about earlier, is like every body is gonna react different or want to do something different in these two weeks. You might wanna stay home - totally fine! You might wanna go out. I think I also like went to John Mayer one night, so that was like a fun concert. I was like, oh God, I have to bring all my stuff to the concert.
Dr. Nazem: I'm surprised they let you in.
Carissa: Oh yeah. You know, I can sweet talk anyone.
Dara: That's good. You lived your life. And you learned how to adapt.
Carissa: Totally. Completely agree.
Dr. Nazem: Right. I think that's the key here. And like we said, if it's important to you, you can get it done and we can make it work. And these are the conversations we have at that first visit. You know, what are the restrictions? How do you make this work? When's a good time to do it? People have travel, people have weddings, people have all sorts of stuff going on. So it's doable. We can make it all work.
Rena: Definitely. Just talking about it - have a good team of supports figuring it out. Yeah. And you know, it's never the easy times in life that we grow and this is a challenge. And so it's how do you grow from this? You know, what can it teach you about yourself and just give you, you know, helpful coping skills to just deal with life moving forward.
Dr. Nazem: So, well said.
Rena: So well thank you so much.
Dr. Nazem: We need, we need all your wisdom
Rena: For coming on and for everything that you do. And Dr. Nam for being an amazing physician, what a dream team. But really inspiring everything you've done and raising your voice and you know, it's clear you've helped so many women, which is incredible.
Carissa: Thank you for having us. Yeah.
Dr. Nazem: This is a lot of fun.
Dara: So how we end our sessions are always with words of gratitude. So Carissa, let's start with you. What are you grateful for at this moment?
Carissa: I am grateful for, I mean, there's a laundry list, honestly, health is so key right now. And I am so grateful for the opportunity to have the ability to speak to people in the community. Dr. Nazem been a huge champion of mine as well. So I just am so thankful for the people I've met along the way and excited for what the future holds.
Rena: Love that. What about Dr. Nazem?
Dr. Nazem: I would say, oh, so many things, but I'm so grateful for the two of you to do this incredible podcast. You have so many episodes that are empowering in different ways, and thank you for letting us be a part of it and advocating for women in all different situations. I am thrilled I get to do this job all the time and meet incredible people like Carissa, who has become a friend in the process. And it's been, it's been really special to kind of explore that and enjoy advocating together. So that's my number one.
Rena: Beautiful. Dara?
Dara: Well, I was gonna start by saying Carissa, I love if anyone like, she has a green on and it looks like it's this beautiful rainbow glow. It's like a rainbow. She's sitting in front of like, like the sunlight and it's just the most beautiful thing. So at this very moment, I'm grateful to see such beauty.
Dr. Nazem: The reality is she's a unicorn and this is her rainbow house she lives in!
Dara: Look how it, it looks like she's like, you know, God is speaking to her! No, but all, all seriousness. I wanna piggyback in terms of friendship. I'm so grateful that in this process of starting Fertility Forward, I don't even know how many years ago it was many years, four or five years ago now, it was before Covid. I'm grateful for my friendship with Rena and in terms of how it's grown and developed over the years and how much I've learned from her as a human, as a therapist, as a, a podcaster. I really, she's someone I admire. So I'm, I look forward to every single time that I get to record with her because it's another opportunity to catch up.
Rena: Aww Dara. So thank you so much. And I feel the same. And I would just say, you know, sort of in the same vein, you know, I'm so grateful for when work isn't work right. This is really fun. And to, you know, meet new people, Carissa and I just met for the first time and just other like-minded women who are really doing this in the field because of genuine authenticity, I think is amazing. And to just have that experience and really looking forward to doing these episodes and who I can meet and seeing familiar faces like Dr. Nazem. But really, what a gift. And I, yeah, I kind of am like, I can't believe this is part of my job, you know, and just be around other amazing women and, and know, like, we're all out there, so what a, what a gift. So thank you so much. This was so much fun.
Dara: Thank you ladies. Yeah.
Carissa: Thank you.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today and always remember - practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram @fertility_forward and if you're looking for more support, visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.