Ep 162: Navigating Fertility and Cancer Treatment with Alexandria Touris and Dr. Matthew Lederman
Fertility Forward Episode 162:
When is the right time to have children? What if you put having a family on the back burner and then something tragic happens that prevents you from conceiving? Today, we are joined by cancer survivor and RMA client Alexandria Touris and her doctor, our very own Matthew Lederman, to discuss navigating fertility with cancer. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about how Alexandria’s life was turned upside down when she received her cancer diagnosis, her egg retrieval process, the kind of support system she had, and her personal opinion (and words of wisdom) about freezing your eggs if having a family may ever be on the cards for you. Dr. Lederman also explains that cancer is affecting younger women before sharing some of the difficult questions he asks his patients to individualize their care. Finally, we discuss what we are grateful for today. To hear all this and even be reminded to be kind and pay it forward, be sure to press play now!
Rena: Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Fordwar. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Dara: Today on our podcast we have two special guests. One is a recurrent doctor who is phenomenal, one of the REs at RMA, Dr. Lederman, and we are back with one of his patients, Lex Touris, who is here today to share with our listeners her very unique story at RMA and how she worked with Dr. Lederman. So I'm really appreciative that you both were able to join us today to talk about your experience.
Dr. Lederman: Thank you for having us.
Lex: I'm honored to, yeah, honored to be here.
Dara: So Lex, let's start with you. I would love to know what brought you originally to RMA?
Lex: So I actually was diagnosed with stage one triple positive, lobular invasive carcinoma - breast cancer - in very early of January, 2024. So one of my very good friends works for RMA and she's been a positive force throughout my life and obviously she was another angel that just kind of spread her wings exactly when I needed her to. And I was diagnosed on a Monday and she got me into the clinic by Thursday to start the egg retrieval process. I'll be honest, I was engaged days before the diagnosis and unfortunately that didn't work out and dodged the biggest fool in my life, but it clearly that's a big issue in regards to fertility and oncofertility. It's a side of the whole fertility life that I never thought, basically my world imploded in a matter of days and the fact that RMA was there for me so quickly, and I mean like this, open the doors for me. I am, I will never be able to repay them. That's kind of the beginning of the story.
Rena: Wow. So your, was it your onco-doctor had the conversation with you to preserve fertility prior to undergoing treatment?
Lex: So basically it was a whirlwind of appointments, of course as soon as you're diagnosed. And being the age, I was 38 at the time. So being the age that I was and not having children yet is clearly a big factor. The doctor that diagnosed me, actually she did offer an oncofertility doctor within her practice that I met with virtually, which was fine and all, but I hate to say that I did not feel whatsoever the warmth and the kindness and just the comfort that I felt even being on the phone with RMA’s doctors. So I quickly kind of pushed them to the side and went straight forward with RMA 'cause I knew that they were gonna take care of me, not just in the interim and just the, I could say the word trauma, the word of the trauma that I was going through so brashly, but also I felt for the long-term. The fact of how the long-term care, the RMA offers really kind of made me more secure in regards to that decision.
Rena: Okay. Tell our listeners more about what you mean by long-term care.
Lex: Sure. So I was so lucky to be able to have a very, very quick egg retrieval. So the basis of my diagnosis, the protocol rather, would be to have immediate bilateral mastectomies and then start chemo after that. And I needed at least a year of IV treatment, which clearly you cannot get pregnant on. And the nature of my triple positive diagnosis blasts your ovaries. So really there's no chance of me producing eggs or getting pregnant naturally after my course of treatment. And even, not even the long-term course of treatment, but just the next year I was looking at. So the fact that I was able to do two egg retrievals prior to the chemo treatment was just unbelievable. So I was able to do a very quick one before my mastectomies. And then, because I'm sure you guys know, and I'm sure the listeners at this point know that you don't start injections and have an egg retrieval the next day. So, there's a bit of, bit of time that is limited. So I was able to do one retrieval prior to the mastectomies and then I snuck in a really quick one secondary before I was able to start chemo.
Dara: Wow. So one prior to surgery, one just post-surgery when you I guess recovered.
Lex: Yeah. So I was diagnosed Monday, I started injections, I was in the doors by Thursday. I had my first egg retrieval, I believe it was a Tuesday. I beg your pardon? I, I can pull up the dates and give you actual numbers, but it was days before my mastectomy.
Dara: Wow.
Lex: So then I had the mastectomies and then not a week after I started injections again. And then, so that one, I remember that I had my secondary egg retrieval Tuesday and I started chemo Thursday.
Rena: Oh my gosh,
Lex: I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky.
Rena: Well, I mean that in itself, but a gift that your viewpoint is that I'm so lucky instead of like, why me or, or poor me? Or is that how you felt while you were in it? Or this is 'cause you're sort of on the other side?
Lex: Oh no, honestly I would, and of course you have those moments when, and I, I kind of put it, I related to my elementary school, this is kind of funny. They put a tarp over the elementary school and they imploded it. Okay. So this is an elementary school, it's been around for over a hundred years. My, my uncle, my father, my uncles, they all went there and my aunt and the school's historic. It blew it up under a tarp. And then they built this beautiful new school. So I felt like part of my world had to implode to make room for these beautiful other options that are there. So I kind of had that mentality. I know it sounds kind of obscure, but that had just happened so I was trying to relate my life to something I, you know, concrete that I'd seen. And I truly believe that. So, and I'm also just so, so blessed for the army that fuels my fire because I have so many people in my corner that I'm just so honored by and so lucky to have. And this is something that I actually want to platform and spring off of to help other people that, and advocate that don't have the same support that I do because I don't think people understand the options that are out there. And I don't think I would have if it weren't for the people in my life, including Dr. Lederman. My gosh. The second I sat down with him and he understood the whole BRCA gene situation, which I'm sure we'll get into, but I'll be honest, of course you have your, you know, your dark moments and your, your sad thoughts. But even right off rip, I just was so blown away by the support that I had that I didn't even know was there. So I'm, I truly believe everything happens for a reason and people are put in your life for a reason. And I, again, I was just so gracious to all the people that stepped up for me in those dark moments and they bring the sunshine.
Dara: Wonderful. That's such a nice way of looking at it. I was gonna ask you, like, did you have a support system 'cause I'm sure that can make the world of a difference. And it definitely seems with Dr. Lederman, I would love to speak to you, Dr. Lederman, and ask you, I know in the past we've had you come on to talk about the BRCA gene, but is this something that you commonly see Dr. Lederman? And I would love to hear your point of view of working with Lex.
Dr. Lederman: So, you know, one thing that I wanna, you know, reiterate is when someone gets diagnosed with cancer, like Lex said, your world explodes in a matter of like minutes. And I can't imagine being in that situation when you're, like, given the diagnosis, you can't think at all, like your brain's going all different ways and then having to, like, rush to do things to organize everything. I mean that situation is, like, beyond, you know, imaginable. And everyone handles those situations differently. From the start, you would never know, like Lex described, like those dark moments, of course, you know, she had this dark, you would never know. She was so positive throughout the process, smiling, energetic. When she's tired, you would've never known. So one thing that I just, you know, and I said to Lex before, like, I admire how she persevered through this unimaginable situation and had that positivity, which is really hard to do. You know, I can't imagine having to do it and just being positive throughout the process. Her positivity was infectious, you know, among the office. You would never know what she was going through. So, you know, I, I said to boy, you know, kudos to her because she's a super strong person and you know, I think her telling her story lets others know that there are others like her and the situation sucks. But you know, you persevere, get a support system. You know, she had a lot of amazing support among her friends, her mom, you know, I got to know from like being in the office, her mom was there and just how positive she was and to support. So you know, when someone's faced the situation, you know, find your support system, find who makes you happy, you know, and is there to help you and support you. And it stinks. But you know, with perseverance in terms of your positivity, demeanor, I admire Lex and I hope others could learn from how she handled it because you know, to make a situation that's really hard, a little bit better, you know, a little better. You know, and unfortunately I see these kind of situations unfortunately too often, whether or not it's someone diagnosed with cancer and we try and get 'em in within, you know, once a patient's diagnosed, we try and get 'em in as soon as possible. Sometimes you can do it same day, next day, two days. A lot of it depends on, they have all these visits with different doctors and trying to plan. But we try and get 'em in 1, 2, 3. We try and get 'em started. 1, 2, 3. And we need about two weeks. It's about two weeks. Usually when we do fertility cycles, we start with the period. In this case, sometimes we do or sometimes we start randomly where they are. But we need about two weeks to kind of get 'em in, get their eggs, you know, freeze eggs or create embryos and get them onto the cancer therapy. And you know, in this case we were allowed options to two, you know, two cycles, you know, to, you know, bank, you know, a bunch of eggs. And the topic of BRCA, you know, the BRCA gene is one that I'm very passionate about because it affects my family 'cause my wife's a BRCA two carrier and she had, you know, prophylactic mastectomy. We had construction when we were done with our family. You know, we had two kids, we found out after we had kids, she, you know, removed her tubes and ovaries at the age of 40, you know, and I have a daughter who's a sophomore in college and a son who's a junior high school have a 50% chance of inheriting the gene and the risks that have come with it. So I've always been a passionate advocate for the hereditary cancer community in terms of options of preserving fertility. There's also the ability to screen out the gene by doing a special form of IVF where you check the embryo for the gene and put back an allele unaffected, therefore ending the cycle. So that's one of the topics I has always been passionate about speaking, talking about it, educating, seeing patients because it affects how someone builds and plans a family. You know, having that kind of diagnosis.
Rena: Yeah. Well I think my question too would be for people who know a little bit about the fertility preservation process, a lot of times it can be a long time to start. So can you explain a little more what goes beyond being able to start this process so quickly?
Dr. Lederman: So oftentimes, like I said, we get 'em in right away and you know, there's blood work that goes, you know, into it. And we work with sometimes some obstacles could be finance, insurance coverage, insurance authorizations, some insurances will cover that for that indication. Some don't, some don't cover the medications. So we figure out, you know, we work with organizations, one group that we work with, The Chick Mission, which is an amazing organization that, you know, Lex has worked with, I've worked with to help support, fund, educate cancer patients and help obtain support in terms of financially going through it. So it's a lot that has to happen. You know, one big one is financially. So you know, some, like I said, insurance will cover it, but they still are not always, they are pain about it. So we have to work with them to try and get them to cover it right away. Getting the medications. So Chick Mission helps fund a lot of the cycles, especially pharmaceutical companies to help that their meds come from while offer medications for free to some of these patients. A lot of times they give us medication so we help donate them to the patients to use. So it's plain logistics just in terms of getting the medications, hopefully getting them coverage for the cycle. And then we get 'em started within a few, a few days because time is of the essence. We want to, you know, get the eggs and then get 'em to the cancer treatment. A lot of times it's chemotherapy first. In this case it was, you know, surgery for, but depends on the unique circumstance.
Lex: I have to hop in and praise the Chick Mission of course RMA as well. But the Chick Mission is what RMA led me to the Chick Mission, which was phenomenal. And the Chick Mission is the grant that I received that ended up covering both retrievals, which I will, I don't know how I will ever repay the Chick Mission, Dr. Lederman, Janelle, your entire staff. I am just so grateful for everything that's been given to me. And again, who knows that these options are there. So I love the advocacy that you all do and I can't thank you all enough for getting these names out there and trying to just let people know their options because as Dr. Lederman said, insurance for me, in my case, they considered the egg retrieval elective surgery.
Rena: That's insane.
Lex: I was electing to have cancer, you know, and electing that this was gonna be happening in my life and the fact that they gave me this gift that this is a possibility for me to have is just, I don't have words for it.
Dara: Lex, did you find out about Chick Mission through Dr. Lederman? Through RMA? Like how were you put in touch with them?
Lex: Yes, yes. A thousand percent through the RMA, the community there, through Dr. Lederman, through my friend that works for Dr. Lederman, I am just, again so grateful to all of them. And the relationship that they have is so beautiful because it's not just a business relationship, I feel like it's more personal. I was honored enough to be invited to the Chick Mission Gala. Dr. Ledermanwas there as well. It's just, it's this beautiful unison of these different disciplines that understand how important that they are to each other and the advocacy that needs to happen between each other for everyone else that's not really pushed into this situation to understand the options and understand what is happening. And so prevalently in our country
Dr. Lederman: More and more women are getting diagnosed with cancer at an earlier age. The age of cancer, now it's getting younger and that's where fertility is, you know, becomes a major concern for, you know, women who haven't started or haven’t, you know, completed the family. And then one other thing that I, you know, that Lex I think highlighted, there's a whole team behind this. You know, there's a rush to get going in order to make it happen. There's so many people behind the scenes that play a role in terms of making it happen. When it comes to the fertility care coordinators, the finance team, the nurses, there's so many behind the scenes team members that help make it happen to then connect them with Chick Mission, just the unison. It's a short period of time. We have a such an amazing team that helps facilitate that. Therefore that makes it easier on the patient when they don't have to do everything. They're stressful enough, they're scheduling all their appointments for their oncologist. There's so many things going on. We try and take some of it off the plate by helping make it as easy as possible.
Lex: Dr. Lederman is being humble by saying, take off the plate. I cannot speak enough about your team. And I think that the most powerful part about RMA is that everyone on the team is all in unison with the same goal in mind and they really treat each patient so individually and the specific situation that they're in. So that way they're able to help plan, family plan for that specific person. So I, I can't speak enough about how individualized that the planning is and again, just how cohesive your team works together to achieve that common goal.
Rena: Oh, I'm so happy you have such a good experience. I mean, I know Dr. Lederman is so passionate about his work and you know, as he shared his personal investment in, you know, kind of oncofertility. And I found like for this, you really do need a physician who understands that and who will really go to bat for you about the timing, about the finances, about hooking it up for you. And that's so important.
Dara: I'm happy you got a great experience for me hearing it, it's like, it seems like such a whirlwind of a time, but to go to a clinic and to have that support and the care and the help to take a little bit of that off of your plate, I'm sure made the process somewhat easier. And I would love to go back to you Lex, in terms of hearing, you said you got some great support from your peers, from your family. I would love to hear more about that.
Lex: Sure. So I hate to say cancer's no surprise in our family, if you will, or something that we're not used to. My rockstar of a mother has survived cancer four times. I'm sorry, kicked its butt four times.
Dara: Wow.
Lex: Yeah, she's incredible. And my sister has also been a miraculous support. The three of us are a team. We're a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately. I joke, I gave my cancer to my sister. So my sister was diagnosed just a couple days before this past Christmas in 2024. So we've been tagged teaming chemo together. Where we're getting treated has been fabulous in regards to helping us just do it together to make my mom's head not spin off. But she's been such a rock through all of this and we're so lucky to have each other because what better than to have someone as close to you as your sister and your mother that have gone through this or are going through it together. So we are so lucky. And again, I still get texts and phone calls and emails from RMA. And I haven't been there. Gosh, Dr. Lederman, when's the last time I was there? over eight months ago.
Dr. Lederman: Been awhile, I mean I, we, I started at the, at the Chick Mission gala. I always saw each other. And then at the American Cancer Society, the, the…
Lex: The breast cancer
Dr. Lederman: Walk? No, it was a Purchase, right? That was a no. Which I don't, that was over the summer. I lose track of everything. Everything kind of blends together. Same. Yeah. But yeah. You haven't been on RMA premises in, you know, quite some time since, you know, you did the second egg free cycle.
Lex: Yeah, it's almost a year. It's almost a year. And these people still on their own accord, personal accord, reach out to make sure that I'm still doing well check in. It's just, I think that there's so much to be said about the RA family that it's not just, you're not just another number, you're not just another patient that they truly care about your projection and where you end up. 'cause I think that's what they invest in and that's what makes what you all do on a day-to-day basis. So beautiful and how lucky I am to have gone through you all. But these people are just still a part of my life, which is very cool. And again, I keep saying they just, they add to my army that fuels my fire. And that support, not just the personal support, the familial support, but meeting people that they're in this with you, you know, they wanna be on this journey with you. It just fuels your fire. It makes you more fierce. And I can't say enough about oncofertility in that regard. You know, I hope that people that are going through what I went through have the same luck and have these beautiful people in their lives that help them just keep fighting.
Rena: It definitely sounds like for anyone going through this, you would certainly advise a support system
Lex: A thousand percent.
Rena: Sounds like you're particularly lucky with your mom and your sister, but I think, you know, supports can be found in all avenues, but it sounds like a support system is so important. Any other advice that you might have for somebody going through this?
Lex: Sure. I'll be honest, I had thought about freezing my eggs when I was around 30. It's that typical, and I hate to use a stereotype with the career woman. You know, like I was driven to get my career off the ground before I was gonna start thinking about family. And I'll be honest, I feel like in our society that could be a very unfair, not a toll that takes on, you know, just unfair mentality that a lot of females have that don't have necessarily the support at home. That they feel like they need to be the breadwinner or they need to, to even say a woman that wants to have children on her own without the support of a her partner. There's definitely a lot of stress that comes with that. I will definitely say I really do appreciate that our government is finally starting to dabble in regards to covering some of the finances in regards to insurance, but it's such a minimal amount of jobs that cover that for you. So it really falls on the woman or on whoever, you know, on the female who is gonna be carrying this child or wants to have children down the road. And when I thought about it when I was 30, I kind of focused more on the career, pushed it to the back burner, and then as my life's changed and I, you know, I thought that I was going to be having kids with the person that I was with and then that kind of rug got ripped out from under me as well. So I guess every situation is so, so different. And clearly I'm here for anyone that wants to speak about this, I'd love to share my info. But I think it's really a very personal situation in regards to when the time is right for you. So I really urge women to not wait ‘til that time to think about freezing their eggs and to think about the fertility aspect. Because first of all, one is the right time? You speak to a lot of parents and they always say, I wasn't ready, but now they have four kids! You know, so it's, it's a, it's a double-edged sword there that a lot of people are not ready until they do it. I kind of urge that females, that at any point in your life you think you wanna be a mom, freeze your eggs just so you have the option and get that dress out of your head just so that way you know that it's an option that you have it. And I understand that that can be very difficult for women financially insurance wise, but if you make it a goal, I'm sure that you know, it's achievable. In regards to the oncofertility, a thousand percent. The second you're diagnosed and you don't have children and you think that it's an option that you do want children, I think that the oncofertility is, should be in the forefront of your treatment plan. And I was lucky to have so many people kind of take over that for me, but it's something that needs to be addressed in the beginning of treatment because a lot of your treatment's going to affect your ability or capability of not just carrying children but even just producing aches. And I don't think a lot of people understand that or know about that until they're thrown into it. So that's my biggest message is if females at any age, if you think you wanna have children, yeah. Think about the options that you have in regards to fertility, freezing eggs. Just so you know, your options are not limited.
Rena: And I think that your particularly lucky and you did have an onco physician who talked to you right away about fertility preservation. And I think that's like at the push in our field is for the connection between res and onco providers. Because I think a lot of times people feel like they weren't ever told this and that there's a separation between the two. And so it sounds like you were particularly lucky in that your oncologist understood, hey, I need to tell my patient about fertility preservation. They referred you to someone right away. It sounds like that referral wasn't a fit, but you found RMA and so you got all the information.
Lex: I honestly think also though, back to Dr. Lederman, I wasn't sure. So yes, I understood I had cancer, I understood I needed to freeze my eggs. I did not understand the long-term effects that the possible of chemotherapy and the type of cancer that I had would affect my ability. And not only to produce eggs but to carry children. And I think that Dr. Lederman was a huge support in that regard because the original onco fertility specialist I met with never mentioned any of these things. And it wasn't really a very personalized treatment. It was kind of more like, oh, you have cancer, so this is what we're gonna do. He didn't ask any questions about my personal life or what I had just gone through. Dr. Lederman was so personable about it that it was such, again, I keep using this word, but an individualized treatment plan. And I can't express that enough about how important that is to each person going through this very obscure situation. But Dr. Lederman, he took that as like an elephant off my chest. He really took that stress off of my plate so I could focus on my surgery, my chemo, being strong, getting better. He really helped me just to know the options that I had and what could happen was not gonna happen, what might happen. He was very realistic but in a very beautiful delivery. He really just understood what I was going through at that moment. And I can't thank him enough for how comfortable he made me feel days after my diagnosis and everything else I'd been through.
Dara: You made a good point that it's really important to have someone who knows right questions to ask to make it more personal. 'cause I was, I was thinking, I was like, okay, it's really important to be your own best advocate. And this is typically what Rena and I say, but in a situation like this, when you're like being thrown in a situation, don't really know the questions to ask 'cause you're, you haven't really prepared for it. You're just literally showing up how important it is to find a provider like Dr. Lederman who really knows how to ask some of those deeper questions. Not those surface questions, but something a little bit deeper to make it more customized and individualized for what is important to you.
Lex: Exactly. It's RMA and Dr. Lederman. It's clearly no one size fits all. It's clearly where are you in your life, not just in your treatment but where you personally in your life. And that I think kind of gets pushed to the side in a lot of fertility clinics in regards to just, it's all about fertility, it's all about embryos, it's all about insemination. It's all about egg count and the scientific side of it. And I, listen, I'm, I'm an occupational therapist, I'm a neuro nerd. I love science. But there becomes a point where you have to kind of just not push it completely to the side. Obviously given the nature of, you know, this industry, but you need to deal with and address the human, the person and their goals and what they're going through and their feelings and thoughts and this motion and this, their emotions in this notion rather. And I just, again, I, I know I'm repeating myself, but I can't say enough about RMAs multiple clinics 'cause I went to more than one and the staff there from soup to nuts. I've never felt more comfortable. It was just a really lovely experience. And I hate to say in my situation, this shouldn't be a lovely experience, you know, like it should be, I should be crying in the corner. But they made it so much easier that those weren't my initial and innate emotions being sad. I was just so excited and grateful for what they were all doing for me and the relief that I felt through the whole process.
Rena: I think that speaks a lot to you though, too, in your own mental space and your capacity as a human and where you're at. Because I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to do that.
Dr. Lederman: I totally agree. And those questions that I have to ask are hard questions. And they’re hard questions to ask and harder to answer. Those are not easy questions to address. Especially at a time when your brain is functioning at a quarter of what it normally does because you have so much going on and it's hard to process and you know, think about those things. So they're tough questions and you know, nowadays oncofertility and fertility preservation is more at the forefront. It's still not where it needs to be. Where more, when some women are dying with cancer or more are being referred to programs, you know, not everyone you know, luckily being in New York, we have a lot of resources. In a more rural environment, I don't know if they have the resources, you know, don't know if they have those ancillary support systems. And one thing I also want to piggyback what you know Lex said is, you know, when you thought about freezing your eggs, you know, in the early thirties, what I would just say is, even if you may be not gonna do it, just have a conversation, meet with someone, get educated, learn about it. So therefore you're empowered to make a decision based on information related to that situation. So we see a lot of women talk about freezing, not all do, but at least we can provide them information and help them, you know, decide what to do. And anyone you know, who has some kind of genetic mutation or disorder that their risk of passing on, whether it's cancer or something else, freezing eggs at an earlier age or having that conversation, you know, is something that when there's a genetic risk, such as like the BRCA gene, and I spoke about that with Lex and I said, you know, I would've loved to have that conversation with you years ago so we could, you know, at least come up a game plan even if it was do nothing, just to like, you know, have a plan 'cause you know the, especially the BRCA gene, when a woman has it, it's almost like they have like two hands tied behind their back with what they're at risk for. You know, I have some have described it as a walking time bomb waiting to go off at any time and for Lex it went off. You know, unfortunately now it doesn't always go off. And that's why, you know, if we had those conversations early on, we can have the option of freezing eggs or if they have a part of freezing embryos or if they wanna screen that gene out so their children don't have to go through that situation. We could screen that out.
Dara: But Dr. Lederman, don't you think that that should be a, like my thoughts is, you know, then if you're going for your annual physical and they, you know, any changes in your family history, any updates in terms of sicknesses or diseases, I think that should be a discussion with your internist. And that should be like the, the starting point.
Dr. Lederman: I couldn't agree more. You know, someone who's a known BRCA carrier, they should, you know, when they get the diagnosis, in my opinion, go meet with a fertility specialist to talk about how that affects them building and planning a family, even if they're mid twenties, just to kind of have that background information so in their head they could kind of map out a plan that kind of makes sense to them given what their desires are and their situation. At least they're educated, whether it's the internists, the OBGYN, the primary, also what I also have been advocating, so even someone with not a known diagnosis of BRCA mutation, there are other cancer mutations but have a lot of family history of cancer that they maybe should be with a cancer geneticist to talk about should they be screened for a cancer, you know, genetic mutation and the implications? You know, and the best to do that is through like a cancer geneticist. So they could probably have pre-test counseling and post-test counseling based on what the results show or don't show.
Dara: We had that in my family by the way. Someone in my family had a cancer or rare cancer and we all got tested, all met with the geneticists and now need to get screening earlier than most people would. So it's, I think it is great, great that you're bringing this up to our listeners to come to realize that it's, it is something that should be discussed earlier and you know, even if it's not necessarily something that you may know about, but if it's someone in your family.
Lex: That's what saved my life was early screening. I would love your listeners to, this is my soapbox right now. And even if you don't have, again, family history and you did genetic testing, but we all need to be our own advocates. And I hate to say that a lot of people don't have the advantage of that, but Google, you know, or just to jump online really quick for a search. Google Scholars a great is a really, really great resource for, you know, medical journals and that kind of thing. But I just have to say that early screening is really, really it what saved me, I was going through a routine screening. I was diagnosed with the BRCA gene at 23 and I was diagnosed at 38 and it was lobular so not ductal. Ductal is usually what you can actually feel. I had no lumps, thank God I went for an MRI 'cause the mammogram and the sonogram did not, the ultrasound rather did not pick it up. So I was very lucky that my practitioner kind of forced me to get an MRI, 'cause I'll admit I'm a bit claustrophobic. So, that was a brutal test, but it saved my life.
Rena: I was gonna ask if you're comfortable sharing it, how did you find out in the first place?
Lex: Honestly, I was at an annual at my Gyno’s office and I saw a poster on the wall and this was again, how many years I'm dating back now, about 15 years ago that I saw something about this BRCA gene and they would run bloods annually anyway and she said she could go ahead and run that test. I said, what's this about? 'cause my mom had breast cancer, so I knew that. So she said, I can include this in your labs. And she did. And yeah, so it was kind so
Rena: So you just knew that your mom had breast cancer and then you saw this random poster and that and then you advocat for yourself. And then it sounds like you had good practitioners along the way who took it seriously to push you for testing. But you didn't feel anything. It wasn't obvious and no, you even had to pursue more testing than the basic.
Lex: And I had my sister get tested of course too, and she came back with it. So we knew it was from our mom and we had the whole family tested for the BRCA gene. Of course me and my sister were the only lucky ones. But thank God that we knew that so that way we were prophylactically out, you know, out in front of it because God knows how long I could have gone without knowing.
Rena: Wow.
Lex: Same with her. And thank goodness that we both have, that science has come so far for both of our generations in regards to being able to detect something as early as they have and that, you know, in regards to even just the chemo that we're getting.
Rena: Yeah. Oh wow. That's incredible.
Lex: And know my poor mom my poor mother. She's, you know, I again beat cancer four times and now has to deal with both of us. But she is a warrior woman rockstar. Dr. Lederman will tell you!
Rena: Sounds like all three of you are
Dr. Lederman: Strong women.
Lex: It could always be worse.
Dr. Lederman: I agree with that statement.
Lex: I just keep telling everyone it could always be worse, you know, so you focus on the things you can control, which sometimes it's very, very minuscule, but it could always be worse. And we have to make the best of what is given to us and we're so lucky that we have each other and that we can go through this journey together. I'm sorry, I hate that word journey. Everyone keeps asking how's your journey? But I like to call it adventure instead, so it really could be worse. And like I keep saying, thank God that we
Rena: Wow. Amazing perspective and mindset.
Dara: Good. Rena and I often, you know, talk about going in with a positive mindset, but when you're faced with something super challenging, it's easy to say those words but to actually implement it. And you are a perfect example, who really went in such a, a challenging situation with such positivity as Dr. Letterman said, with a great support team, both at home, both in the clinic. And it's wonderful to hear your story. I know our listeners are really going to appreciate your honesty, Dr. Lederman, the process that you take and what kind of happens behind the scenes, and really, I'm very touched by hearing your story.
Rena: Yeah. And your, and your attitude and mentality is really inspiring.
Lex: Listen, I I can't thank you enough for that. I don't deserve the credit, honestly, it's, it's, it's the people keeping us alive. The people that, Dr. Lederman giving us, that hope constantly. We're just so lucky by the people that we have around us. Honestly, I give the credit to all of them.
Dara: And including yourself. I think it's the perfect balance of it all.
Dr. Lederman: I'm, I'm getting way too much credit. You gotta give yourself a lot more credit.
Lex: I'm bad at that. I'll be honest. While we're being honest here, but I'm just, again, just grateful. And again, if there's anyone that ever wants to talk about anyone that's going through something similar or knows someone that's going through something similar, if there's any information that I can impart or offer or just, you know, a high five, virtual high five. If there's anything that I can do to help, I am here for it. 'cause I, again, I'm so blessed with my army, my new goal in life is to pay that forward and I have to figure out a way to do that and I will. But I would love to be able to impart any knowledge, any support, any just motivation to anyone that needs it. So everyone know that I'm here.
Dara: What would be the best way, if someone did wanna, is it, do you have a, an IG handle or something that you feel comfortable sharing?
Lex: Yeah sure. My, in my IG handle, I'm impressed, I knew what that was. But, I'm terrible on social media, but my Instagram is Lex, L-E-X, the number two and then D-E-F. So Lex2Def is my Instagram. I'm on Facebook as Lexi Luu, L-E-X-I-L-O-U. Feel free to email me my business. I'm an occupational therapist. I mentioned my email. There is a tous, A-T-O-U-R-I-S @ Dynami,. D-Y-N-A-M-I therapy, T-H-E-R-A-P-Y.org. I'm sorry that was long-winded. Like I tend to be, but, like I said, I'm here for any help. I'm just, we gotta pay it forward. We're so lucky. So we really have to pay it forward to people that don't understand the options that they have and that are out there and the people that are just too exhausted to do it 'cause they're going through whatever emotional, physical, medical situations that they're going through. So never give up, keep fighting.
Rena: Well thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and your magnetic enthusiasm and energy.
Lex: Really appreciate that. Thank you.
Dara: Before we wrap, I was gonna say a quick thing. If we can, if you wanna end, if there's any words of gratitude, anything that you're grateful for. So that's typically how we end. I'm putting you on the spot, Lex!
Lex: Straight on the spot.
Dara: One thing. And it could be anything today or at this moment that you feel extra grateful for sure.
Lex: And I'm gonna repeat myself again. The first obviously that comes to mind, my initial team. So you know, you're starting lineup. My mom and my sister. I'd be dead without them. And I think vice versa for all of us 'cause The three of us are so, so close that I am just so grateful for that unison that we've had for many, many years. And then many trials and tribulations that we've been through. Not everyone knows about them and they don't need to, but we do. And we know who we are to each other and how grateful we're to each other. Secondary, so my secondary team would be my extended family and my friends. And Dr. Lederman, you're in there now! My immediate friends have just literally been supporting me from day one. And I'm talking not just emotionally, physically, mentally, but I haven't been able to work. So the things that they've put on, I'm gonna get choked up now speaking about that 'cause they know me. I'm not good at being vulnerable. I'm not good at asking for help. And my friends knew and I needed help without asking. So I'm, will forever be indebted to them. And then we have the, the medical team who just, again, you don't feel like that they're doctors, that they're nurses, that they're techs, they are just so personal to you and they are just making the day 'cause sometimes I'll have three, whoever we will have three appointments in a day. And that's exhausting jumping from one medical profession to another. And people don't realize what the tiniest little niceness that you can impart does for someone. When my mother was diagnosed with her breast cancer when I was a kid, she said she had this out-of-body experience in the supermarket that she was like, no one knows what I'm going through. So this is what I wanna impart to all the listeners no matter what you're going through. It takes so much more energy to have anger in your heart or to kind of be rude to someone. It's so much just easier just be kind to the person next to you or pay it forward 'cause you never know what someone's going through and it could be the worst day of their life or the best day of their life and you have no idea. And this, the tiniest little bit of niceness could change the path, a trajectory of someone else's day or life. So I just leave the listeners with that. Just be kind and the tiniest little bit of niceness could just totally change someone that you will never know, but at least you know you tried.
Rena: I love that. It's so beautiful.
Dara: So nice. I'm getting emotional. Dr. Lederman? Gonna follow up with that?
Dr. Lederman: Yeah, I'm, I'm screwed. I can't follow that! No. So, and I'm grateful bo for my family, both my personal family and my work family. You know, I have such an amazing family at home. My kids and my wife, parents, my siblings. And then I have such an amazing RMA at work, family like I'm, you know, really lucky in terms of my personal family and my work family. I'm very grateful for that.
Rena: That's beautiful. And let's not forget Maisie Blue, your dog we were talking about prior to recording.
Dr. Lederman: Maisie could be Maisie's very needy. She's very, very, she's sweet, but she's very needy. So sometimes she can drive you crazy. So, but we do like Maisie. Easy! And my, my, my daughter is gonna be, if she ever watches she's, she's like, how did Maisie get a part of this? And my son too, but my daughter especially, we'll be questioning that. What
Rena: What about you, Dara?
Dara: I feel like I need to give a shout to my cat then Maple. Like, you know, if everyone's doing family and friends and not doing necessarily their pets, shout out to Maple. But no, I, in all seriousness, I was actually, I'm grateful to have reminders each and every day that we live in a world where we have choices. We have choices of how to handle things. We can choose to handle things with negativity and seeing the worst in any situation. Or we have the choice even in the hardest of the hard, the most challenging situations to, you know, it's a very Victor Frankel type of moment of like, how do you want to show up and who do you wanna be? Do you wanna be the victim or do you wanna be the hero in your own story? So I'm grateful for the reminder to be the hero in my own story. How about you, Rena?
Rena: I will go with, you know, it's interesting listening to you, Lex. I will give Dara a shout out because Dara has gotten me into taking Kabbalah class, which is all about trying to have the mindset that Lex does. So, you know, I've taken many, many self-help or you know, sort of spiritual growth classes over the years. Kabbalah is a new endeavor for me and I'm really enjoying it. But I'm sitting there listening to you and it's like, wow, that mindset, it really comes easier to some than others. I have to work really hard to have that mindset and go to class to, to get that mindset. And, but it's really amazing to, so, I mean, I'm grateful to have the opportunity to do it, but it is a gratitude to just meet other people that are kind of already there. And to meet someone that's already in that plane of gratitude and exists there. That's where I'd like to be. And so I'm, I'm trying really hard to be…
Lex: You're giving way too much credit. You're giving me way too much credit. Please. What you do every day is bring people joy. So please come on. You're doing way more than you think that you are.
Rena: Well love that. Thank you. But you know, I think it, it is about like sort of glass half full and recognizing what can I learn from this? What is this teaching me or the power of kindness, right? And you know, I sort of, it's like hurt people hurt people. So if someone's really mean to me in the grocery store, at least now I've done enough training to be, okay, it's not about me. And I'm gonna feel, I feel sad for that person because like, it's not about the whatever they're yelling about, it's obviously about something else going on. And can you treat someone like that with love and kindness and compassion and, and all of that. So…
Lex: Hey, listen, some days are easier than others. And my funniest thing I'll leave you with, instead of flipping off people on the highway, I gave the l like over your forehead. Like you're just from I
Rena: Love that. Do the opposite action. I love that. And
Lex: People pull up and they'll laugh. They're like, you know what? I was mad but now I
Dara: L is it L loser? Yeah. Yeah, you're loser. That's so funny!
Dr. Lederman: You’ve never seen that before?
Dara: No. I'm just so clueless!
Rena: I was thinking L for love. I thought
Dara: Love. I'm like, isn't this love? Yeah.
Rena: L for love. Like do the opposite action instead of
Dr. Lederman: It's, it's, it's usually like a teenage thing. Like my sometimes like my son will do that. Like, it's like a teenage, you know, teenage thing. Sometimes they'll throw out the L. Yeah,
Dara: I love it. I think that's, yeah. That way you're, you're bringing humor to it as opposed, you know.
Rena: Well thank you so much for coming on. This was so much fun to record.
Lex: It really was. And I had to shout out my dog, my son Hoozer 'cause You guys made me feel bad with your animals. But my 16-year-old dog is getting me through, through a lot. So, we'll shout out to Hoozer!
Rena: You can't forget him. Come back anytime you wanna share about your adventure, not journey, adventure.
Lex: And you know, there'd be many more adventures. So we could do this again.
Rena: Yes. We gotta get busy living.
Lex: Thank you so much for having me. It was an honor.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember: practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember - you are not alone. Find us on Instagram @fertility_forward and if you're looking for more support, visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.