Ep 161: Alleviating the Financial Strain of Infertility in the Jewish Community with Jenn Leffell
Fertility Forward Episode 161:
An infertility journey comes with many stressors, from emotional and social challenges to family pressures and the unavoidable financial strain. Today’s guest, Jenn Leffell, co-founder and COO of the Stardust Fertility Foundation, is working to ease one major hurdle—cost. Stardust Fertility Foundation helps bring more Jewish babies into the world by alleviating the financial burden of fertility treatments through its Stardust grants. These grants are available to all Jewish individuals and couples in the tri-state area, regardless of background, identity, or level of observance. As a passionate fertility advocate, Jenn is dedicated to helping individuals and couples achieve their dreams of building a family. In this episode, Jenn shares the journey and inspiration behind founding Stardust Fertility, how they select grant recipients, and their unique partnerships with clinics and pharmacies in the area. She also unpacks what makes for a strong grant candidate and how they approach marketing their organization, and she gives us a sneak peek into their upcoming annual gala. Don’t miss this insightful conversation with Jenn Leffell!
Rena: Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
I'm so excited to welcome to Fertility Forward today, Jenn Leffell, who is the co-founder and COO of the Stardust Fertility Foundation. Jenn's love for helping others combined with her personal experience with fertility issues naturally led her to co-founding Stardust. She serves as a passionate fertility advocate dedicated to realizing the dreams of individuals and couples striving to build their families. Jenn hopes to make a lasting impact on the lives of others, fostering a community where everyone has access to the resources and assistance needed on their fertility journey. Oh my gosh, Jenn, what a necessary and needed being in this space! Obviously finances are such an issue across the board and I'm so excited to learn more about Stardust and what you've created and how you're helping others. How incredible!
Jenn: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. So I guess we'll start. I'll give you a little bit of background on myself 'cause it's always nice to know, like, the face behind the name of any organization. I'm Jenn. I live in Westchester. I have three little boys and luckily I was able to afford fertility treatment but for so many it's just unaffordable and it prevents them from having kids. So, you know, when I graduated college I was working in the city. I majored in communications, I was in executive recruiting for 10 years and I left that job when I was pregnant with my third son after, you know, going through a bunch of IVF and, and fertility treatment. And I knew I wanted to do something that was more meaningful and I wasn't really sure what that was. And I had left my job and I was doing some work in elder care 'cause I, that's like a side passion of mine. I'm super passionate about the elderly. And a friend of mine had called me and said, you know, I just privately went through this fertility experience and I know that you're so public about your journey..who is helping people that can't afford it? And she said to me like I could afford it. And I had said, you know, I was lucky I could afford my treatment, but there are so many Jews in the tri-state area that can't afford it, that aren't able to try for a first or even a second or even a third kid. So when she had said that to me it kind of like got my head spinning and her head spinning and I was like, you know what, let me do some research. Let me see like what resources there are out there to help people just like me or you that are struggling to conceive that that unfortunately need to go through fertility treatment or any, you know, specific ART treatment. So I did my research and I found there are so many amazing organizations out there and that's why whenever someone's like, oh don't you do the same thing as Bonei Olum? Like you know, I'm just naming a random, a random fertility organization. And sometimes it's yes but there needs to be a lot of us in this space to be able to help such a wide range of people. So I found these amazing organizations that aren't necessarily tri-state focused but are more national, right? Like there's, I'll say a few if anyone listening knows them, Bonei Olam, Puah, there's Atime, there's the Jewish Fertility Foundation and they all do amazing work but there wasn't anything like specifically targeting tri-state area Jews. So then you know, I called my friend back and I'm like look, there are definitely organizations out there that are helping people that are struggling to conceive, but it's not specifically New York, New Jersey, Connecticut. And she was like, we have to help people and I wanna help like all types of people. And then I was doing more digging and I was like, you know what, it would be such a beautiful thing to make an inclusive Jewish fertility organization, right? So whether you're gay, straight, if one parent is Jewish but one intended parent is Jewish and the other isn't, but you are going to raise your children in a Jewish home and that be the sole religion in the home, amazing! You know, there's like a, you know a million different things that you can play out. But we were kind of, like, envisioning a fertility organization that if you are Jewish or plan to raise your kid Jewish, it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter what you practice as, I mean obviously it does matter, it has to be Judaism, but you know on the side it doesn't matter what you practice as long as you wanna make more Jewish babies, like that's okay by us. So we kind of put our heads together. It was myself, I'm Jenn Leffell, it was my two co-founders, Alex Peyser and Alyssa Kolatch. And we were like let's do it. Like, let's build an organization. So I had said to my friend Alyssa, who initially called me like, look, you're like the more business brain. Like she was in medical school at the time. I was like if you wanna file for 501C3 and, like, get an accountant, like lawyers, like all that do it and then call me and then let's see what we can do together. Like let's see what magic we can make. She did it, right? So then the three of us kind of got together, it was my, one of my co- founders Alex's idea to name it Stardust because there's a line in Genesis where it says made the Jews be as plentiful as the stars in the sky and then later on it says, and I will make my seed like the dust of the earth. So, like, we thought that was like such, like, a special beautiful connection. And again because we wanted to be more inclusive, we were kind of, like, staying away from naming the organization like something with like a Hebrew word, right? 'cause like you know myself, I grew up conservative. I went to, like, a Jewish day school my whole life. My kids are going to a Jewish day school. I know what certain Hebrew words mean and I know like, you know meanings behind certain practices in the Torah but that's not the point for the organization. It's to help anyone and everyone who wants to raise Jewish babies. So after we kind of figured out the name and like what the mission was, right, to build an inclusive Jewish fertility organization, we started recruiting a board of directors and from there what's the next most important thing - getting a grant committee together. Because in the grant committee it's the people that are deciding who is getting awarded what money, you know, if they're getting awarded what money. And we really wanted that committee to be diverse in the sense of professional background. So we have a rabbi on the committee, we have a reproductive endocrinologist, we have a social worker, we have a geneticist, we have a lawyer, and we have someone in finance. So all of their brains together can kind of hone in on like every detail of an application. And a big question is like hey, how do you choose who's getting a grant? Obviously we have a very serious application process where you have to upload, you know, personal statements. You need a letter from your doctor stating that you're medically infertile or if physical findings prove otherwise. Obviously if it's two gay men they need a surrogate and you also need to live in the tri-state area and you have to have proof of health insurance, right? Because we wanna know if we're giving you a grant, you're able to - god willing - have a baby and take the baby to the pediatrician when the baby needs to go to the pediatrician. So you know, we kind of got together like with the board and then the grant committee and made a bunch of rules, bylaws, whatever you wanna call them to see like okay, who's getting a grant and who's eligible. It's been, like, a wild ride myself. Like, I did three IVF cycles. My husband and I, we met in high school, we, you know, went on our honeymoon, did genetic testing, figured okay, like, no one is gonna have a match. Obviously if we had a match. So like I was kind of blind to it and for me, like I went into doing IVF, I went to the clinic and you know they did my bloods and they were like, you actually have a low AMH which for anyone listening you don't know an AMH is you're ovarian reserve. So I was like, 27, at the time but my ovaries like were in their fifties. So like that was kind of the biggest blow for me 'cause I was expecting, okay like genetic match, two weeks of shots I can do this. Like let me get my punching gloves on. And then the doctor was like, no, like it's gonna be more than two weeks. So we did three cycles, again, I said before, I have three boys. I couldn't be happier and everything went smooth, thank god. But for a lot of people it doesn't and it's not even, you know, there's so much of an emotional like hurricane going on when you find out you need fertility treatment, when you're in the process of fertility treatment, it's like there's like the physical burden, the emotional burden, the financial burden. So for us specifically at Stardust, we really wanna help alleviate that financial piece. So we give grants up to $15,000 and we also have partnerships with different clinics throughout the tri-state area. So we partner with you know like top rated clinics nationally like RMA New York, you know, CCRM, Northwell, I can name them all. But at these clinics, if you are a Stardust grant recipient, you also will get up to 20% off of your treatment. So we give these grants that are up to $15,000 but we also, we wanna save you every penny we can. So we have these partnerships with the clinics that will also, if awarded a grant you will receive a discounted rate on your treatment when you know, if you're getting an IVF treatment and it's like between $15,000 and $20,000, then saving 20% off of that is a big chunk of money. And we also have partnerships with specialty fertility pharmacies to make sure that you can get the best priced medication out there 'cause, you know like anything like it's a business, right? So there are different pharmacies all over the City or you know, even people ship nationwide. But again we have partnerships with specialty pharmacies to make sure like hey this is the place to go do and you know, this is where you should be getting your medication. So that's kind of like the overall story behind Stardust. It's been three years, obviously it takes almost a year to make a baby and it's not always successful. As anyone listening I'm sure knows, especially you know in the fertility world there's one in six people that struggle with infertility and because statistically you know there's miscarriages and a lot of obviously, like, not too great stuff that can happen that factors in too. So I can give you like rough numbers just so you know what we've done so far. We've given around like 60 grants. We've had 16 babies, which is amazing And we have a lot, I think there's like 20 grant recipients that are currently in the middle of treatment. So that's really exciting. We just finished our seventh round and awarded another $10,000. So things are really, like, exciting and great and I feel like the best is yet to come and it's really exciting watching the organization grow.
Rena: Wow, that's incredible. What amazing, amazing work that you do and I can't believe you've only been doing it for three years and you've given grants. That's amazing.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah it's great.
Rena: Wow. So I mean I guess what I'm sure listeners are gonna definitely wanna know is what makes you, besides the qualifications that you named, what makes you desirable grant candidate? You know, assuming you meet like all the sort of the…
Jenn: So obviously everyone has their own story and everyone's story is important, like to just get in the door to apply, I mentioned most of these: you have to live in the tri-state area. One, if it is a couple, one person must be Jewish Judaism must be the sole religion in the home. And how we confirm that is we ask, when we ask for letters of reference, we need at least one from a rabbi or someone in the Jewish field that can attest to your Judaism 'cause It's easy for anyone to just, like, click a box and say like, yeah, I’m raising my kid Jewish. So we need reference letters proving that you can do that. And again, being able to afford basic health insurance is key. Also, I will mention that a lot of nonprofits in the fertility world cap household income at $150,000. That's kind of like the standard, not every, not all of them do, but that's just like a standard number that a lot of people use. Now when we started Stardust, I had said to my co-founders, like we live in New York so $150,000 in New York isn't the same as $150,000 in Ohio or you know, anywhere else in America. So we don't have a hard cap on household income. That being said, obviously if you make half a million dollars, like if your household income is half a million dollars, you're not, the committee isn't gonna approve you. But again, like we live in New York, so if there's, you know, an intended single parent that works in nonprofit and you know the story is compelling and there's a ton of paperwork attesting to the Judaism and you know all of that and that person alone makes $200,000, that might not be out of range, right? So I'm not on the grant committee so it's like a lot of times I'm always dealing with these like grant applicants and I'm talking to them, but I always say it's not me that's making the decision ‘cause, like, you know, if it were me, like that's a big reason why I don't make the decisions because I would probably wanna give it to everyone. But obviously grants are based on the availability of funds at the moment. So it varies obviously. But overall those are like the main requirements. And what makes you a good candidate? I mean we see it all, right? Like it's awful. We see people that have had stillbirths and then a miscarriage or we see people that just have secondary infertility or we see people that, you know, got into an accident when they were younger and you know, made them a paraplegic and unable to produce sperm. Like, I mean like, the stuff we see it's, it's heartbreaking and it's exactly why we do what we do because we don't want finances getting in the way. I mean I always say this, but post-October 7th, like for me something super important is Jewish continuity and like if we can play a part and helping someone make a Jewish baby, like, that is just the magic that would be incredible. I mean, and again, like it's not like our grants are always full, right? So it's not, like, if you're applying for a grant for IVF, if an IVF treatment is $17,000 at a certain clinic, you're not getting $17,000 because as I said, they're up to $15,000 the grants that we give and they're usually partial grants. So I'd say the average grant size is around like $6-$7,000. But again, not all. And it's based on availability of funds. I mean we, you know, we have someone that works full-time doing fundraising who's incredible, who has given us, you know, such great opportunities and connections and I know that will continue but not every grant cycle has the same, like, allocated budget. So obviously that that you know, depends on who's coming in and what's what's happening
Rena: And can you receive two grants? So say you get a grant for a cycle, your cycle doesn't work, whatever and you really can't afford to do another one, could you potentially get a second grant or no?
Jenn: Good question. So you potentially, yeah, but historically that's never happened before. So we've never given a grant to the same person twice. That being said, like we always say apply, but it has not happened yet. It's not, like, that's, like, in our bylaws that one recipient can't get it twice. Because, unfortunately, like, as I said, statistically that can happen.
Rena: So what are you looking to do with your company? What are your goals for the future?
Jenn: So our goals are to keep doing what we're doing. We definitely wanna expand, not to say like nationally, but just like in the markets that we serve, right? So like right now we're in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and we are really right now focusing on infiltrating New York, New Jersey, Connecticut. So you know, ,we're more like Westchester, City, Jersey but like we wanna get to Albany, we wanna, you know, we really wanna go deep into the markets that we serve and kind of like make sure that we touch every area, you know, not every street but, like, we really wanna go into every community where we are and then obviously take it from there. That's ,like, the major goal. Obviously, like, we have like a three, five year plan with fundraising and all of that. You know, a lot of people don't realize, like, when you are a nonprofit for the first few years, like, everyone wants to know that you are legitimate, right? Like, you obviously, like, we have a budget and all of that, but a lot of more, like, institutional foundations don't really look at you unless you've been around for a certain amount of time. Understandably so. So I feel like now we're, like, kind of like at that inflection point where like we're getting more notice just because we've been around more, which is super, super exciting too.
Rena: That's amazing. How do you do most of your marketing or getting the word out?
Jenn: So we have someone that does fundraising for us and marketing. It's honestly like, because we go into these clinics and we have these partnerships, it's so nice 'cause like if someone goes to the clinic and they're talking to like the financial coordinator, even the doctors honestly like we get most of our applicants feeding out of the clinics from the doctors 'cause Like you know, obviously the second you find out you need fertility treatment, it's super hard to hear and then all of a sudden the doctor's like, have you heard of Stardust? And they're like, what's that? And then they Google and then they look at our website and then they see if they meet the criteria and then they apply. So that's like the, honestly the main point of like marketing. Now the thing is like again, we've only been around for three years so every dollar that we raise, we wanna go directly to the grant recipient. So we don't have a team, right? Like it's me, it's Nikki who does fundraising for us. But eventually obviously like in our three, five year plan, like there's more that's gonna be added on. But for right now it's not like we have as many resources to do this type of marketing because we really, we're really trying to give every single penny that comes into these, to these grant recipients who need it.
Rena: Yeah, well and I mean in this space obviously I can't imagine it's hard to market it just getting people to know you because finance is an issue.
Jenn: Exactly. And like between like the doctors and like word of mouth and social media and like even between our board, like I always say it's like a joke. I'm like yeah we have a diverse board but our board like everyone is like white and Jewish. It's not diverse in that sense. But like we all have these different fertility stories. So like Leon on our board, him and his husband have four kids via surrogacy. Like, someone else on our board struggled with secondary infertility. Someone else on our board knew from a young age she would never be able to carry a child. Like, I had a genetic match. So, like, we can relate to so many different aspects of the fertility world. We recently launched a program called Stardust Fertility Friends. And it's super sweet because basically you don't even have to be like a Stardust applicant to apply, but now we have like this following on social media and people keep hearing about us. So if Jen Leffell had a miscarriage at 13 weeks and has like a one and a half year old at home and is so stressed and and like has questions and just wants someone that's been there, done that, if like Jen didn't wanna be with her kid and was going through a hard time, like I could potentially like message, Stardust on Instagram and we will pair you with someone hopefully as long as we can find that person. Which sadly it's pretty easy to find that's kind of been there, done that and make like a little buddy.
Rena: Oh that's beautiful.
Jenn: So, we're trying to, we really focus on the financial aspect of you know, the whole process. There are other foundations out there that are able to do like emotional support and give educational resources, which is incredible. We're not there. But what we do is like, we have this friends program where we set up little matches, which is really sweet. And I'm like,
Rena: I love that.
Jenn: Like when I was going through the whole process, like when I was working in my job in executive recruiting, I'm not kidding, I had like 75 people on my phone and it, it would be saved as like Rena, IVF, Alyssa, IVF, Jamie, IVF. I never met them in my life, but people were said like, can I introduce you to my friend Rena? Like she just found out she has to do IVF and is scared of like the progesterone shot. I'm like, yeah sure. And my phone was, is like flooded with these people 'cause it was like everyone was connecting me 'cause I was only too happy to like help and share my story. And it's crazy like how it kind of, like, exploded and like the whole goal with Stardust Fertility Friends, is to give someone that buddy that's kind of been there, done that and you know, can really be there as like emotional support for them. So even if that's a little thing that we can do on the like emotional side, like even everyone on our board, like we've been there, but like we've also like felt the pain, like emotionally, physically, like, so again, like you really try to just like help any way that we can.
Rena: That makes such a difference. I love that. You know, people are always looking for matches and something I always encourage patients to do is connect with other people.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And it's like, it's so much more accessible now. Like I remember even, like, when I was going through it, like I, I feel like a dinosaur, it was only like what like seven, six years ago. But like even then, like it just wasn't spoken about. People couldn't believe that I was like, oh yeah, I'll meet you. Like I'm gonna be a little late to drink so I have to go do a shot or like, I would like, go to my friend's weddings and I would bring, like, a lunchbox with like the fri I forget if it was like Gonal or Menopur or whatever it was. But it was like in like a lunchbox with like an ice pack. And I would like go to the caterer and I would ask them to like save it. And everyone was like, what is that? And I was like, oh my IVF meds. Like, and now it's like so much more acceptable and look everyone, like there's some people that are more private about it, which is of course like I totally respect it, but it's just a lot less like taboo now. People talk about it. And like with stardust, another way that we raise money is we do these like hyper-local events. So we go into different synagogues, we go into different, like whether it's like a JCC or we even go into, like, people's homes and schools and we do things to bring the community together. So like we do a lot of these like challah bakes or we do like Ted talk, like we call them Ted Talks, but like speaker series on like on the fertility world. But like while doing that, like if we go into a synagogue near me and there's like 50 women in the room, or even like in New Jersey, we did one like a few weeks ago it was actually like a hundred people and we all made challah and you know, I spoke about Stardust, I showed a little video and then like people started raising their hands and wanted to share their fertility story and like when I tell you like tears, like buckets of tears were in the room and like half these people, no one knew what they went through. No one knew that they were struggling. And it was just, like, such a beautiful thing for people to feel comfortable enough like around a room of women to be able to, like, really, like, let go and share their story. So yeah, I mean it's really, I feel like we're able to offer a lot of, as much as like we're only focused on the financial aspect, like between the events that we do and the Stardust Fertility Friends, like, we still give that type of like emotional support in a sense without obviously we're, I always am like very transparent. We're not licensed social workers, but we're friends, right? Like we've been there, we've done that. Like I always say, like, I am you. I see you like that was me. It's gonna, you're gonna get through it. And it's just nice to have support to lean on throughout the process. Yeah. Well...
Rena: I love that you have like a holistic approach.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Rena: That's amazing. Yeah. Tell us, I know you have a big fundraiser coming up too.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in March, Tuesday, March 11th, we're doing, every year we do our annual gala and it's like, it's nice as we've watched that organization scale. Like the first year we did it, there's this place in the city called the Software Center. Last year we did it at Lavan, but like last year we literally had to turn people away, like the week of, because we were at capacity. So we chose a bigger venue. This year we're doing it at Chelsea Pier at Current. Anyone listening, I'd love for you to come. The link is in our bio on Instagram, but we're expecting around 350 people and there will be, you know, friends like, you know, people from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, wherever. But a lot of people in the fertility world. So whether you're from a clinic or a startup or there's a million different fertility things going on right now, which is amazing, but I always say like, I feel like it will be a big chance for, like, people in the fertility world to see each other. Last year it was amazing. I mean we had people from so many clinics and it was almost, like, blast from the past for so many people to see like old colleagues or doctors or friends of friends. And it's just a great night. We have two speakers. We have Katie Sands, who is an influencer who has been using her platform to speak openly about her fertility journey, who's been normalizing fertility and it's been amazing. And we also have a grant recipient, someone who we had given a grant to. And one thing about Stardust, we also give grants for secondary infertility. So just because you have one child doesn't mean, like, you're not, you know, struggling to conceive another one that, especially worrying about the financial burden. The grant recipient that's speaking has an incredible story. She was diagnosed with cancer when she was like 28 weeks pregnant. Thank God had the baby and is healthy now, but wanted to have another baby and obviously needed to do surrogacy. So she's gonna tell her story and share how Stardust was a help. But yeah, I'm super, super excited for the gala's. It’s gonna be so Great.
Rena: Wow, that sounds amazing.
Jenn: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I'm really excited. So it's like coming up now I'm like in like gala mode, like doing all the silent auction items and even if you can't come, we'll have like our, our silent auction link live so that there's like sports memorabilia and like yummy restaurants and you know, dermatology practices. We, we kind of, we've covered it all. Hotel space, all that jazz.
Rena: Amazing. Well I'm so impressed with what you've built and you've done, what you're providing. I can't wait to share with my patients. Yeah. And read the word about what you've created. I think it's so impressive.
Jenn: Yeah. And I always say like, we're like an open book. Like if we're not able to help you, it's not like, sorry, we can't help, bye! I always, I'm introducing any people that we're not able to help to other people. Even if it's like different organizations or I have people reach out to me that are in LA and obviously we don't help LA but I know, I know people in LA that could potentially help them. So it's like that's, I mean, you know, you've been in the fertility world for awhile, like, because it's like such as big of a world as it is, it's so small. So like we all just wanna help each other. We all have the same goal. Like, and that's the nice part 'cause I feel like it's always like all hands on deck and we can really help change and get people in better places with their, with their fertility journey.
Rena: Yeah. That's amazing. I love your approach. I love your attitude and…
Jenn: Thank you.
Rena: ... excited to share this. Thank you. Anything else that you wanna share with our listeners before we wrap?
Jenn: No, I think honestly that's it. I mean I love the work that we do. Like we're always, you know, we're growing, we're always open to feedback and ideas if anyone ever wants to get involved, we have different committees. We have the events committee, we have a fundraising committee, we have the grants committee. So there's always ways to get involved if anyone's interested and wants to give back in their spare time. Obviously we always welcome volunteers. You can just message us on Instagram and we will be in touch.
Rena: Amazing.
Jenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rena: So the way we like to conclude our podcast is by something that we're grateful for.
Jenn: I love that.
Rena: So, any gratitude that you have?
Jenn: I mean, I feel like this is like so almost like expected, but I'm grateful for my kids. Like, you know, if it wasn't for, and I'm grateful for fertility treatment, like if it wasn't for me being able to do IVF and me being able to afford it, like I don't know that I would have my kids right now. And it's just, it's an unbelievable thing. And I think modern medicine and technology and science, like I feel like it's just the beginning. Like it's only getting better and better. I can't even imagine like the world of IVF in 10 years from now just 'cause I see the advances happening already. But definitely thankful for, you know, modern medicine IVF and obviously thank God my kids.
Rena: I love that. It's beautiful.
Jenn: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rena: I guess I'll piggyback off yours and say,
Jenn: Yeah, tell me,
Rena: I too am grateful for fertility treatment because it gave me my daughter and then similar to you, that's sort of what pivoted me to my work in this space. And the thingsI love about this podcast is meeting women like you who went through it and then discovered there was something lacking and then, you know, pivoted a career or on the side started something or you know, so kind of the idea of turning lemons into lemonade.
Jenn: I always say like, like my 20th like high school like reunion, whatever is next year. But I always like, I keep saying like in high school would I ever think I started a fertility nonprofit? Like, forget it. I knew nothing about fertility in high school. Like, it's crazy, you know, like where life takes you and the ride you go on. And I always think it's beautiful to be able to kind of give back if you can. So
Rena: Yeah, absolutely.
Jenn: I'm happy to do it.
Rena: Yeah. Well thank you so much for coming on and so excited to
Jenn: Thank yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it. So nice to meet you and hopefully I'll see you and anyone listening at our gala march.
Rena: Yes. Thank you so much.
Jenn: All right, bye Rena.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember: practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at Fertility Forward. And if you're looking for more support, visit [email protected] and tune in next week for more fertility.