Ep 156: The Power of Somatic Therapy with Sarah Geissah
Fertility Forward Episode 156:
Are you overwhelmed by the whirlwind of emotions that come with infertility? Today, we welcome Sarah Geissah blank: target, a Columbia University School of Social Work graduate, to explore the transformative power of somatic therapy. Sarah explains how this bottom-up approach, focusing on bodily sensations before thoughts, can ground you during stressful times. She contrasts it with traditional cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and highlights its benefits in dealing with anxiety and emotional distress before sharing practical self-soothing techniques and grounding exercises. She explains how these tools can help you process emotions, reconnect with your body, and find solace amid the challenges of infertility. Sarah also discusses the importance of acknowledging and validating all feelings, from joy to sadness, and how somatic practices can be applied to everyday life. Tune in to learn how to embrace your emotions, foster self-compassion, and navigate the infertility journey with grace and resilience.
Rena: Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara, and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Rena: Well, I'm so excited to welcome to Fertility Forward today, a very special guest. Sarah Geissah has been my intern for the past year, and she is now working with us at RMA in an official capacity. She is a Columbia University School of Social Work graduate, and it has been a pleasure to work with her, and I always learn so much from my interns and this past year, Sarah has really brought her specialty of more somatic therapy to our patients. And so I thought it would be great to have her on today to talk about this area of expertise and how she's applied it to her work with our RMA patients and those struggling with infertility. So, thank you so much for coming on today, Sarah.
Sarah: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is so exciting.
Rena: Well, it is so, so nice to have you on to share your skills. So, let's start with you telling our listeners what exactly is somatic therapy?
Sarah: Yeah, so there's kind of two main approaches to therapy, one being the top down approach, which is like more classical types of therapy that we hear about often, like CBT is a very frequent one, and that is pretty much starting with your thoughts and then kind of moving down to your body. And it's more focused on, you know, reframing thoughts and regulating how your body responds to them physiologically. But with somatic therapy, it's kind of the other way around. So it's a bottom up approach where you kind of start with the body and then make your way up to your thoughts. And so you start by focusing on body sensations, focusing on physiological responses to thoughts, and then making that connection into how your thoughts respond to your body rather than how your body responds to your thoughts, if that makes sense.
Rena: Okay. So in normal CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy, you know, I use that a lot in my work. And so that's all about sort of mindset shifting, reframing thoughts, redoing patterns, identifying triggers. And so with that, so say a patient presents and they say, going into the office, you know, gives me a lot of stress and anxiety and I have a, a huge block and a fear about that. So we talk about ways to maybe change those thoughts to sort of get through that. And maybe some things we come up with are, take a different route to the office, you know, use a different hand to open the door. Anything you can do to sort of almost fool your mind that you're not repeating the same pattern of behavior that caused you this trauma. So with the somatic approach, like how would that differ?
Sarah: Yeah, so from a somatic perspective you would start by kind of bringing awareness more internal and asking yourself questions like, okay, so I'm feeling anxious right now. What's coming up for me and my body? Is my heartbeat getting faster? Am I breathing heavier? Are my palms sweaty? And just really noticing all of those physiological responses to the anxiety and how that's showing up for you and your body. And that in itself, just bringing awareness to that can already calm you down. It's obviously so much easier said than done, and it comes with practice. And the more you kind of practice bringing awareness to those bodily sensations and even naming them, sometimes saying, like, you know, having an internal dialogue with yourself and saying, okay, I'm feeling anxious right now. I can feel my heart rate racing. I can feel, you know, my breath getting faster, I can feel my chest is heavy, and just naming all of these things. And then you start to notice yourself just automatically, you know, start to calm down a little bit. That's how you would approach it from a somatic perspective rather than bringing awareness to your thoughts like you were explaining earlier.
Rena: Got it. That practice, I mean, that seems so grounding. It's almost, you know, I, I use some sort of similar techniques, but not of the somatic school to sort of help people humanize their emotions. And so it seems like this is a similar technique where you can identify like, oh, okay, my heartbeat is racing, I'm breathing heavy. And you can identify things going on with within self almost makes it more human and almost less scary. Like, okay, this is not the world crashing down on me. This is my heart rate is really fast. Or like, my palms are sweaty, but the world is like still standing, everything else is still around me. And to sort of like ground in that seems like it would really help to calm down.
Sarah: Right. Yeah. And I think one of the most, you know, basic foundations of somatic is that all feelings are welcome and there's no good or bad feeling. There's no right or wrong feeling. And so in those moments of anxiety or deep sadness or depression, I think just reminding yourself that, you know, your body's trying to tell you something or your body is trying to protect you from something. And I think that can also, you know, when people experience those feelings very intensely and tend to dissociate or really disconnect from the body. That is kind of your body telling you that these feelings are too scary and I don't wanna feel them. And so I'm just gonna completely disconnect. And so, yeah, I think it's just important to remember that all feelings are welcome and our body is so powerful and it holds, you know, so much wisdom and, and knowledge and memories and emotions and just making space for all of them and not, you know, trying to resist or judge or push away any specific feelings. And although, you know, some of them are uncomfortable, it's important to also lean into that discomfort. And there's this cliche saying that is, it goes something like you gotta go through something to get over it. And I think there is some truth to that, and it's hard to kind of understand what you're feeling or kind of process what you're feeling if you're resisting it or trying to change it because it's uncomfortable and we don't wanna feel that which is also, you know, a totally natural thing to not wanna feel uncomfortable feelings, but it's important to just make space for them as well. And yeah, remind ourselves that it's their body trying to tell us something.
Rena: I love that. You know, I think so much of the time people explain away their feelings or say, oh, well this is a problem for me, but so many other people have it worse. So it's not really a problem and I shouldn't complain. And something I work on a lot with, with people is helping them understand, right, your feelings are valid, no one can take those away from you. And we can sort of work on having a perspective about something, right? And realizing, okay, maybe something isn't as bad as, as it seems, but your feelings are yours. And they're completely valid. And so I think the first step in so many things is allowing yourself to have those , you know, and I think that's such a common thing, sort of like the, I don't wanna say it's a buzzword, but with gaslighting, you know, and that whole, I think that's been talked about just a lot recently in sort of like mainstream culture and this idea that when someone tells you that you don't have a right to feel a certain way or they make you feel bad for feeling a certain way, and that's not okay, that's never okay.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think a lot of, a lot of us, and you know, society kind of wired us from a very young age that like, feelings are scary and, you know, maybe feelings are a sign of weakness and you have to be strong and you have to push through and like not feel, and I think this is especially true for men in our society. And yeah, I think somatic experiencing, or somatic psychology or somatic therapy, whatever you wanna call it, I think it's, it kind of allows you to create that safety for yourself and create that safety for your body to feel, because we've been taught to, you know, be strong and not feel, and so yeah, that's why I love it so much. It just, you're kind of rewiring yourself and unlearning those things that society kind of taught you. And yeah, just creating that safety internally and not, you know, resorting to something external to create that safety, but rather shifting the awareness internally.
Rena: I love that so much because I think it's giving someone power and control when you're not relying on the external to help you feel safe. And that's all within, because you always have yourself, right? And I think that's the first thing in, in so many things, whether it's self-esteem, love, you know, trauma, whatever, to realize like, what's the one constant, it's ourselves. And, you know, I sort of, I love this quote from this, the poem Invictus, and it's, I'm the master of my fate. I'm the captain of my soul. And I just love that so much because I think so often, at least, you know, I can say for myself, and you know, what I see in my work is when we forget that, when we let other people take charge of those things of ourselves is when we start to not feel good and it can feel super scary and really, you know, not grounded. And I think, you know, to tie it back to the field of, you know, infertility and the specific work that we do, generally healthcare is really scary because you're relying on other people to take care of you, right? You're relying on physicians to help you achieve your goal. And I think that can feel so scary that you're putting the hands of what you want so much into someone else. And I think that can feel very unsettling.
Sarah: Yeah. And it, especially, you know, with infertility or with, you know, medical conditions or things that you can't control it, it kind of makes you feel like you're maybe like just flowing in the middle of all this uncertainty and there's so much uncertainty and so much that you can't control. And so shifting the awareness internally and, you know, maybe realizing that your body and your nervous system is something that maybe you do have control over, and that can be so powerful in itself.
Rena: Well, even not just there, right? And so I know both you and I, we work with people to identify like, okay, right? I mean, first it's about trusting your team, trusting your doctor, all of that. But then I, it is still, you know, quite unsettling. And so, okay, what can I control? Right? Right. I can control my heart rate, I can control my body, I can control sitting up and putting my bare feet on the ground and feeling that under me. Right. I can control, you know, I don't know if you do this technique, this is probably like the one somatic technique. I know the butterfly tapping thing to help sort of ground you and bring you back down. I love that one. And so there are all these things that you can control, and so to focus on that instead of what you can't.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think also in times of, you know, when things are really stressful or when things feel really out of control, it's really easy, like to let the stress and the more difficult emotions kind of overpower. And so also, you know, when I say bringing awareness internally, it also means bringing awareness to the positive emotions and, and, you know, all the gratitude and the joy as well. And I think that's something I find really interesting when I ask people, when was the last time you genuinely felt joy in your body? And they're like, whoa. You know, I don't really think about that. But when you ask someone, when was the last time you felt stressed or anxious or, or sad, it's really easy to recall a time when we felt stressed or anxious or sad because the physiological response is just a lot stronger. And so also bringing awareness to the joy and the gratitude and positive emotions that come up for us in our body and noticing what that looks like as well, can really help to, you know, balance those out. And even in like, everyday things like brushing your teeth in the morning or drinking a cup of coffee in with your partner in the morning and things like that, just noticing how your body feels doing those things or doing things that you love can also help to kind of balance out, you know, stress and sadness and, and all the difficult emotions as well.
Rena: I love that. And I think that's, I mean, so applicable to what we do. And when so many times people are not feeling good in their body and they're feeling super uncomfortable, you know, when you're putting hormones in, you know, if you feel like that oftentimes can, you know, make us not feel good if you're fighting feelings of, you know, guilt or shame because your body's not working how you want it to work. And feeling, you know, I remember when I went through this, I just felt so uncomfortable in my skin and just so not in control of anything going on with my body. And I think those are all really, really wonderful pointers to help you know, going through this.
Sarah: Yeah. And that brings us to this quote that I came across I really loved, and I think it shows the importance of somatic, especially in the infertility field. This quote is from Leslie Ann's journal article, it's called My Body Failed Me. And she says, “A woman's alienation from her body in which she experiences herself as separate from her body is a source of suffering and infertility when the body and the self are not connected and in fact experienced as in conflict, the woman feels not herself. She believes at times that only a baby will help her retrieve her lost self and seek desperately for a solution to the problems of infertility. The sojourn in the strange land of infertility is temporary, though it does not feel like it. Whether a woman emerges as a parent or creates other ways to make meaning of their experience, her connection to herself is a major goal of therapy.” And I think this just shows the importance of understanding, you know, what's happening inside your body, and understanding the connection between mind and body, especially in these super difficult experiences. And like we said, not just, you know, the difficult emotions, but also the joy and the gratitude and, and the happiness and just, you know, the full range.
Rena: I love that. I mean, every single line of that quote I think is so powerful, but especially “the sojourn and the strange land of infertility is temporary, though it does not feel like it.” And I think that right there, you know, so accurately describes how people feel. You know, it's so hard to go through this with the mentality of like, this too shall pass because when you're in it, it does not feel like it's going to pass. It feels like it is going to be forever. It feels like it's permeating every aspect of your life. It feels like it's taking over mind, body, soul, finances, time, partnership, relationships, all the things. And so I love that that quote touches upon that and really validates that. And hopefully in the, in the notes for this, we can link to that quote, because I think it is really powerful.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like you said, this idea of like, there's light at the end of the tunnel can definitely be super dismissive because it does not feel like that when you're actually in the situation. But yeah, just giving yourself that grace to allow your body and to allow yourself to feel the difficult emotions that come with this journey. I think this goal also, you know, really sheds light on the importance of that and like connecting to yourself and your body during this time.
Rena: I love that. And something I talk about, you know, with my patients, and I'm sure you do too, is how to have acceptance, which acceptance is one of the five stages of grief which is so prominent in this process of where you are now. And so meeting yourself where you're at. And this is not forever, but who am I right now? Okay. Right now, it's not the time to be running marathons or triathlons or whatever. And if that was your prior life, it's really, really hard to not be in that. But who am I now? How can I embrace who I am right now and know that it's not for, but how can I be my best self in this time? And so I think so much of the work sometimes is about, it's, it's almost like reintroducing yourself to yourself, you know? And I think that concept comes up a a lot, you know, for so many life stages, whether it's getting married or becoming a parent, or losing a parent or getting a graduate degree, whatever sort of life things, you know. And, and so often we don't take the time to meet ourselves in that new stage. We just keep powering through or thinking we should be that same person that we were before. And I think when we don't take the time to really slow down and meet ourselves where we are, so much conflict can arise within self because it's almost like we're fighting ourselves.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think somatic can be super powerful in getting to know all the different versions of yourself throughout all of this. And I think, you know, sometimes the things that make you anxious change the things that, you know, make you sad, the things that bring you joy change. And I think really leaning into those and noticing, you know, I, I've spoken to people that, you know, they didn't know they had certain fears, and now they do. And it's like re getting to know yourself, right? Because you're evolving, you're changing, might be temporary, it might not. And so yeah, really getting to know yourself, asking yourself those questions, and Yeah. Spending more time getting to know the different versions of you.
Rena: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, as you said, a lot of times, people, this whole experience you know, struggling with infertility can bring up or trigger things about yourself that never would've come up because you hadn't been in that situation before. And so a lot of times I think yes, people are surprised that, you know, one thing or another upsets 'em, or I’d say, sort of across the board, one of the most common things we see, right, is people being upset by other people being pregnant or, you know, being triggered by that pregnancy announcements, baby showers, sort of anything around that. Whereas before, you know, if they weren't in this process, they didn't bother them at all. They loved it. And so adjusting to that, you know, as being a trigger.
Sarah: Yeah. Right. And then when we feel those things and we start to judge ourselves and say, why am I feeling like this? You know, I haven't felt those before. I shouldn't be feeling this. But I think also important to remember in those times that again, that all feelings are welcome, right? And if this feeling is coming up for me, then, you know, it's trying to tell me something about myself, about the situation. And so just letting yourself feel it. Right. And not trying to resist or, or judge or kind of push away any feeling.
Rena: Exactly. Yeah. I think, you know, so often people, they feel bad or they feel guilty for having a feeling, you know, like, Ugh, I'm a terrible person because I am jealous that my sister is pregnant and I'm upset that she is, you know, and that makes me a really bad person. How can I have those feelings? And, no, not at all. Those are your feelings. Let's talk about them. Let's unpack where they're coming from, you know, and let's acknowledge them instead of repressing them, which is never good.
Sarah: Yeah. I think guilt is a really big one. And I think it's very connected to judgment, and we kind of judge ourselves to try to, if we, if we don't fit into a specific feeling or into a specific category, we kind of judge ourselves and we're like trying to squeeze ourselves into one or the other. But I think it's also fine to, you know, experience happiness for, you know, your sister that's pregnant, but also give yourself space to feel the guilt, feel the jealousy, feel the envy, and just feel all of it right. Because this is also your experience as much as you know, it is also hers and you're, and you're happy for her. It's also your journey and your experience. And I think not resisting or not trying to change or judge yourself for feeling that way is also super important.
Rena: Absolutely. And similar, you know, with someone that's using a donor, you know, I see that a lot in this juxtaposing emotion. Like, how do I feel happy and excited that I have been given this option to move forward, you know, with my dream of family building, but also really sad that it's not gonna be my biology. And a lot of times people really struggle with sort of those juxtaposing emotions, or same with, you know, after experiencing a loss, a lot of times I think people feel betrayal that they're excited or, or cautiously optimistic about a new pregnancy, you know, if they've suffered a loss. And that feels really unsettling to them. And that can be really hard to, to sit with those sort of, you know, again, juxtaposing emotions. And so, you know, times I work with people about how you can have two opposite emotions about the same event, and how to let yourself have that instead of pushing one away.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And experiencing a loss can also be super traumatizing to the body. And I think similar to what the quote was kind of saying, I think having a loss especially kind of really can set that disconnection between yourself and your body. So I think somatics can really be helpful here to slowly bring that connection back and fix that relationship between yourself and your body.
Rena: I love that. I mean, I, obviously, I've been, you know, working with you for over a year now, and so I've learned a lot, you know, in our work together. But I don't think I've ever really sat down like this and thought about this pertaining to self, and it's just bringing me back to my own experience with infertility, and it's really making me consciously think and remember, wow. So much of that experience was about me hating my body and feeling so uncomfortable in my skin, just like the loathing that went with that, that was a huge piece of it. And so I'm just thinking it would've been so amazing to have someone like you help me acknowledge that and process that and get through it, because I did not get through it very gracefully. And so, like, how much that might have made a difference.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the loathing and, and all those feelings towards your body can be super difficult. And, and yeah, it can really enhance that disconnection. And I think also remembering that, approaching it from a non-judgmental lens and also, you know, not trying to change that, right. Saying, you know, it's okay, I'm feeling this way and that's fine. Like, I'm not gonna try to change or resist or judge myself for feeling this way, even though, you know, it feels like, right? But yeah, just approaching it from a non-judgmental lens is kind of the first step to bringing awareness to it and then maybe working towards the change, right?
Rena: Absolutely. And I think too, what can be hard is learning who to share those feelings with. I mean, I hear from so many people, and again, sort of bringing my own experience into this as this is really causing me to reflect in a way, like, I haven't in a long time. You know, I just remember so much of my, so many of my feelings were invalidated, or I felt that they were, and they were really sort of disconnected. And I see this all the time, right? Because well-meaning friends and family members, right? Or whoever's in your life, they say things like, oh, it'll be fine. Or just relax, or, you're being crazy, or you're too stressed, or whatever. They're trying to problem solve for you because they mean well, and it's impact versus intent. The intent is always good. I, I think it's very rare, I can't even think of one case where I've heard something where I felt like the person that caused upset was actually malicious. It's just the intent is always pure, but the impact on, on the person can be really damaging. Again, when you're sharing these feelings and then someone's not validating you, you know, obviously our training and our profession is to meet people where they're at and hear what they're saying and really dive deep into it. But friends or family, they hear something, they, they just wanna fix it because it's uncomfortable for them to hear a loved one in discomfort. So they wanna fix it, it's uncomfortable, or it can be uncomfortable to hear someone else express distress. So they're not, unless they're a trained, you know, mental health professional, it's very rare that, that someone's gonna respond and say, oh, you know, sit with your feelings, or, I'm so sorry you're feeling that way, or, you know, all the things that you or I might do with a client. And so I think that's also a really big piece of this that can be super difficult, is when you express something and then it's not met with compassion. It's sort of met with being brushed off, and then it's just not allowing the person to feel validated in their emotions.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I think sharing can be extremely difficult, especially because, you know, this topic is super stigmatized in society, and so people don't know how to respond. So, and they just, like you said, they have good intentions, but yeah. They might say something that might feel dismissive or, and then it makes you kind of question your own feelings about all of this. And am I supposed to be having this strong of a reaction to all this if it's not that big of a deal? Or it kind of gets you thinking, things like that. And I think, yeah, just going back again to your body and trusting that if you're feeling this, then, you know, you should allow yourself to feel it and not resist it, or try to change it or push it away, right? And although people's comments might be dismissive and society as a whole might be dismissive to your entire experience, I think Yeah. It can just be super powerful to lean into yourself because sharing is not always super easy.
Rena: Yeah. And I think it's about finding who to share with, right? And that's why having, you know, a therapist or a support group is really so critical to this. I think it's really, really an important piece. So you have that person who can understand, who can treat you with empathy and compassion, and help you process everything. So then it allows your friends to be your friends or family to be your family. You're not looking to them to necessarily hold space for this or, or solve it because you have someone that, that can and knows what they're doing.
Sarah: Absolutely.
Rena: So, and I think there is another quote that I love that you shared, “Grief may never end, but it changes. It's a passage, not a place to stay. Grief is not a sign of weakness nor a lack of faith. It is the price of love.” I thought that quote was so pertinent to our work. You know, so much of our work is about grief and loss, and a lot of times it's this intangible loss, so a loss we can't see. And a lot of times I think people don't even realize that what they're experiencing is grief or loss. It's not until we talk about it that they realize, oh, wow, there is so much loss in this process. You know, whether it's the loss of conceiving naturally at home, having a gender reveal, being surprised by something or a miscarriage. There's just so many layers of loss. And I love that this quote, I feel like it gives hope, right? It's not going to end, but it changes. It's a passage, not a place to stay. You know, it's not forever. It will ebb and flow, and it's not a sign of weakness. And I think a lot of times people, you know, identify grief or, or sadness as being weak, and they say, oh, I should be strong. I shouldn't be sad about this. You know, again, that sort of goes to everything we've been talking about. And that your feelings are valid. Your feelings are, are your own. And, and no one can take that away from you.
Sarah: Yeah. And I love the last line of that quote, that “grief is the price of love.” And I think, yeah, that it's really beautiful. And, and it also reminds me that, like, you know, we're human beings and we love so much, like, we love people, we love things, we love places. And so loss can be so difficult, but I love that it, it ties it back to love.
Rena: I, I love that as well. I think that, you know, that's about so many things in life, right? We can shut ourselves away and not take risks, whether without, you know, feelings or finances or whatever it is, things that are outside of our comfort zone, but no risk, no reward. And what's that line? It's better to have loved and lost than to never have loved before?
Sarah: Yeah. I love that.
Rena: Yeah. And without opening yourself up to things, you know, you also won't, won't get anything. And you know, as I think we were talking about the beginning of this, you know, being a human is about constant change, you know, and ebb and flow. And, you know, that's the beauty of being a human, that we can change. And I, I fully believe in the ability of humans to change.
Sarah: Yeah.
Rena: I really think people can change with work. You know, not without putting in work, but I have seen people change in really incredible ways. And, you know, I think the, the beauty of a challenge is that's what creates change. You know, no one's gonna change when everything in life is going well because we're not pushed to why would we, we're enjoying life, everything's great. But it's the challenges in life that cause us to, you know, you can either be a victim or be a warrior, and that's where real change can occur. And so I think that is, you know, it's very hard to see that while you're in something that's hard. But on the other side of it, wow. You know, that experience was insane. It was tough, it was challenging. It tested me, it pushed me to my limits. But I'm on the other side of it, and I see that there's real beauty.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, I think we're constantly evolving and changing beings and change, you know, grief is, is a fundamental part of change. And change is always gonna bring grief. There's things that, you know, when you change, you lose things. You lose parts of yourself. Not in a bad way. Because I think there's also like a negative connotation attached to change or grief even. And I think sometimes, you know, you can grieve things that were, you know, not necessarily negative losses, right? And I think, yeah. Grief is just such a fundamental part of change and life and just part of being human.
Rena: Yeah. It is a part of life. Right. Absolutely. Whenever I'm going through something, I like to sort of fall back on the, the idea, the sort of Buddhist idea of suffering as impermanent and remind myself that, you know, same idea of like, this too shall pass or whatever. And, you know, it can be really hard to feel faith in that if you're in something. But I found that throughout challenges I face, that gives me comfort. And just like ride the wave, you know? instead of, you know, trying to push against the surf because that never ends well.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of that, trying to ride the wave and coping rather than resisting, I think, you know, somatic practices can be so powerful there. And, you know, using self-soothing techniques or grounding exercises and just using those skills to kind of be able to regulate yourself and regulate, you know, how you're kind of moving through this rather than, you know, like we said earlier, resisting or trying to change it.
Rena: Yeah. I love that. What a beautiful practice and beautiful techniques and teachings to be able to give to someone. I feel like this is really such a gift for people going through this. And again, I wish that I had had someone do this with me. 'cause I think I would've made a huge difference.
Sarah: Yeah. It can, it's definitely really powerful. And I think it applies in a lot of different aspects of life and, you know, not just when you're going through a difficult experience, but in everyday living, mindfulness can be, you know, somatic practice and just being present in the moment and your, yourself and your surroundings in your environment. Yeah. I think it, it's, it really, it's really transformative.
Rena: Yeah. Definitely. I think that's gonna apply to all areas of life. You know, anything because life is full of challenges. And so this, you know, I think can really help people to face those with grace and dignity. And instead of letting challenges, like, really upend you and cause huge mental upheaval to just sort of be able to, okay, I'm gonna absorb this and just keep going.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's also super healthy to practice this daily. And I think, you know, like in nature for example, with gazelles, they're a great example of how they use somatic, you know, coping to deal with stressful situations like when they're in a stressful situation like being attacked by their predator or almost, you know, eaten by their predator. And you can look this up on YouTube after they get away and they find a place of safety, they kind of start to like shake, they go back to their regular functioning and that's their way of shaking off the tension and shaking off the stress of that flight or fight response. And so we as humans, we're not, you know, wired to cope in that way because it's not socially acceptable, right? If you're in an argument with your friend, with your boss, and you just start shaking or yelling or kind of discharging super obviously or loudly, it's not socially appropriate. And so our body stores all of this tension in those stressful situations, and over time it can kind of manifest into anxiety, depression, anger, and we tend to lash out, right? And so I think practicing somatics daily can really be a great way to release. And so your body doesn't build up all of this tension and then you just suddenly lash out when something triggers you.
Rena: Oh, I love that so much. Like, imagine in life, if we just started shaking, like, excuse me, I'm just having a moment, and then I'll be back with you and then I'll be totally fine.
Sarah: Yeah, that would be cool.
Rena: I might start doing that.
Sarah: Yeah.
Rena: I think that's great. I think that's really great because I think, yeah, that's what happened. People just, they just swallow things, right? They just keep going and then it builds up and builds up. And that's when unhealthy coping mechanisms may come out. You know, anger, irritability, you know, drugs, alcohol, you know, sort of all these things that are not healthy coping mechanisms because that's what happens. It builds and it builds and eventually you're gonna explode and whatever that looks like for you. But instead, yeah. Have a gazelle moment and. just shake it off. I love that. That's fascinating.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the sooner you do it, the better. You know, like you said, I would love to just start shaking every time I'm, I'm stressed or in a stressful situation. But I think, you know, it can also mean, like, stepping out of the room, going to the bathroom. Like I love to just, like, jump in, you know, wherever I am. Like if I, I'll go to the bathroom stall and just jump or like, if that's too obvious or too loud, you can just like, just quickly like give yourself a shake, just shake it off and then go back to the room or go back to the situation. And honestly, it's, it's really powerful. And there are also other less obvious ways, like mindfulness is a great one, but like you said earlier, tapping as well, there's butterfly tapping, there's, like, EFT tapping where you tap certain acute pressure points on your body that are researched to be like energy spaces in your body that hold energy. And so tapping can kind of release some of that energy. And there's so many other great ways to release as well.
Rena: Yeah, I think that's a great point. Right. It doesn't have to be something super obvious. It can be, you know, maybe you have like a squeeze ball or the tapping the points, or sometimes I'll, there's like a pressure point on your hand. I'll squeeze right in between my thumb and forefinger because it kind of hurts. But that hurt though. Then diverts me. And I concentrate on that hurt instead of, you know, the other emotion I'm feeling if that's like too much of a big feeling or I have one of those, it's like a crystal for your chakras and you do like an energy sweep with it. And so sometimes like at home I'll, I'll be like, oh, I need to just energy sweep off this day. Like, it's just too much bad energy. And so I use this crystal to just really like sweep down my body and I find that to be really therapeutic.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Or even body scans - doesn't really require a lot of movement, but just, you know, noticing where the tension is in your body. If you're feeling really angry or really stressed out about something, just taking a moment and just bringing awareness to the areas of your body where you're really feeling that tension. It might be your chest, you know, the heaviness in your chest. It might be your shoulders, it might be your jaws clenched. And just releasing that and just, you know, telling yourself, okay, I'm gonna unclench my jaw, I'm gonna drop my shoulders, I'm just gonna send a deep breath down my chest and really consciously releasing that tension can also be a super non-obvious way.
Rena: Yeah. I love that. And sometimes I think too, just being honest, like, yeah, I'm gonna excuse myself for a few minutes. I'm feeling really heightened right now. I'm gonna go take a walk and I'll be back in five minutes, right? Or so I'm saying like, I'm just feeling really emotional right now, so I'd like to put a placeholder in this and we can pick this up at x time.
Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely.
Rena: So I think right, that it's first is identifying with yourself like, okay, I am feeling this way. Okay, now what am I gonna do about it? Right? Because I don't wanna be reactive. I don't wanna explode. So do I need to share with someone, I wanna plate hold this? Can I just do some exercises with myself? Do I need to just excuse myself to get some air? Instead of thinking, you have to just power through it and bury the emotions.
Sarah: Yeah and I think it's also important to remember that in those situations where each person in the room is having a completely different experience, and I think this happens a lot with, you know, partners or couples where people, it's hard to regulate yourself in the moment, and so you just kind of react and then take a moment to yourself afterwards. But I think it's important to remember that everyone has their own perspective and is having their own physiological experience as well. And so just reminding yourself of that and taking a moment before you react.
Rena: Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, with that we could dive even deeper into sort of attachment and how people perceive things differently and where that comes from. And, but I think even just that perspective to remember too, if you are in a situation with other people that, right, people can have, and that's why when you get, you know, sort of eyewitness accounts, whatever, you can get five different versions of the story from five different people because they did all experience it differently. And it's not wrong. It's their perception and what they bring into the situation allowed them to experience it in very different ways.
Sarah: Right. Yeah. And it goes back to, you know, there's no good or bad feeling, there's no good or bad experience, but it's just about, you know, what can I learn from this? And what's my body trying to tell me? What's my body trying to protect me from? Right?
Rena: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, this has been such a gift to have you on. I feel like we could keep talking forever. This has really been so incredible and I think this will resonate with so many people. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise and experience with us.
Sarah: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is a topic that I'm really, really passionate about and so yeah. I really enjoyed talking about it.
Rena: Well, it is so clear and it's such a gift to have you on the podcast and RMA, so thank you so much,
Sarah: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Rena: The way we like to close our podcast is by sharing something that we are grateful for. So something that you're grateful for today.
Sarah: Today I'm grateful for the beautiful weather and the delicious breakfast that I had this morning.
Rena: Oh, what did you have for breakfast?
Sarah: I had eggs, but I make my eggs with like very specific spices and I add my potatoes and onions and I cut up some olives and it just, it's so good.
Rena: I wanna breakfast. You shoulda done the podcast at your house
Sarah: Yeah!
Rena: Sounds really good. Really, really good. I'll say that today, just sort of keeping this conversation, I actually feel really grateful for my body. Just this past year. I just have been, a lot of injuries. I'm a big runner and working through that, but just super grateful for my body for continuing to fight and helping me just, just keep on. It really is a gift. So that will be my gratitude for today.
Sarah: Yeah, I love that. I think, yeah, it's, I also always forget to, you know, give gratitude to my body for everything that it does for me. Even for the my delicious breakfast that I had this morning. You know, gratitude for my body, for being able to eat that and consume that.
Rena: Yeah. And just prepare it, right?
Sarah: Yeah, yeah.
Rena: Yeah. So. Oh, I love this.
Sarah: Yeah.
Rena: Thank you. Well, thank you so much.
Sarah: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember: practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember: you are not alone. Find us on Instagram @fertility_forward and if you're looking for more support, visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.