Ep 143: IVF as a Same-Sex Couple with Ashley and Amy Deal
Fertility Forward Episode 143:
Navigating infertility is an incredibly difficult journey as it is, but there are even more hurdles involved for same-sex couples. Today on Fertility Forward, we are joined by wonderful RMA clients, Ashley and Amy Deal to discuss their fertility journey. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about our guests’ fertility journey, the struggles they have faced, particularly as a lesbian couple, how they each got involved in the process, why support and a ‘village’ are invaluable throughout IVF, taking breaks, and more! We delve into how they stayed positive even through bad news before discussing the stress and joys they have experienced from their infertility journey. We also talk about how IVF has taught them about true strength. Finally, they share some advice for other couples experiencing fertility treatment. To hear all this and be reminded to find joy in difficult circumstances, press play now!
Rena: Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Rena: So we are so excited to welcome to Fertility Forward today, RMA patients - I love, love patient stories - Ashley and Amy Deal who came to RMA after being referred by a friend and they spent two years with us, 10 rounds of IUI, one miscarriage, and after one round of IVF and with the support of their amazing doctor, Dr. Jenna Friedenthal at our clinic, they are now awaiting the arrival of their baby girl this October. And I'll say to our listeners and viewers, we're recording this in June, so you have a Baby Girl due in October. Super exciting and it sounds like yes, we're very, you went through quite the ringer to get here. So we're so excited to hear about your journey. Thank you so much for coming on to share your story with us.
Ashley: Thank you for having us. We appreciate it. Yeah, it was definitely quite the ringer.
Dara: Congratulations. We would love to hear how you came to RMA and your story, your story, your very interesting, I'm sure, fertility story.
Ashley: Well, I think that just right from the beginning we knew that we wanted to have a family and I think that being the same-sex couple we anticipated that we would have some challenges, right? I personally just didn't expect it to be as challenging.
Amy: Yeah.
Ashley: I don't know about you, but you know, after being married for a little while, we decided that we were going to start trying. We actually had our first appointment while we were on spring break and NOLA. And we were just, you know, super excited. We came referred to from a friend who had a positive experience as well. And then we kind of just got the ball rolling. But once we did get the ball rolling, like I said, I just didn't think it would be as hard. I don't, I just, I don't know.
Amy: Yeah. It was quite a process. I mean, so our set of friends who referred us, Dr. Lucky, got lucky and first IUI, right, they received a positive pregnancy. Little man is five years old now. And so they had, you know, they just had a really positive experience throughout the entire thing. And we've had a multitude of friends, right, who've gone through the process. And so, you know, you hear the odds but like, you know, you try and remain hopeful. There are things, you know, that continue to happen along the way. And you know, between life and work and everything, you get busy and it can be a lot.
Ashley: I think one of the first things that a doctor said to us was to manage our expectations. And I think that it proved to be a lot more challenging than I think we both thought. Because as educators I think I, I can manage my expectations and I know what to expect, but I also work in a very, like, controlled space I feel like most of the time. So dealing with something that is completely beyond our control where you are not just working with science, but you're also working with insurance, and doctors, and you know, all of these other components. It just was so, there's just so many variables to take into consideration.
Rena: Yeah. So what do you think, I mean, of the challenges you face, was it more the sort of emotional rollercoaster, you know, 10 IUIs as a tremendous amount, or was it navigating like the legalities and all the nuances that come doing this as a same sex couple?
Ashley: I think first the legalities lead into the emotional frustration and like all takes a toll on you, right? Because we found out that Aetna, you know, wanted us to do 12 rounds of IUI. We originally…
Rena: 12?
Ashley: 12 rounds.
Dara: Wow. Before you could progress to IVF?
Ashley: Yeah. Based on my age. And I remember just, I think we bought only like five vials because that is what the doctor recommended. And we're like, yeah, totally. Fine. And then when we realized that it had to be 12, I think we both looked at each other in a panic because was there enough vials of our donor? Right? And then, so we immediately bought so many more because we didn't know what this would look like for the next year. Feeling just frustrated that we even have to do this. That we have to go through 12 rounds 'cause that's 12 periods, that's a whole entire year. Right? Of just trying, of, of just shooting possible blanks. And then it's the financial burden, right? Of like, how are we going to figure this out because it's not cheap. And after the pandemic there was an increase in pricing for vials. So…
Amy: Yeah, the cryobank, they said that their, yeah, the cost spiked significantly. So somewhere in the 20% range because people weren't able to obviously physically come in and donate. And so there was a massive depletion over the course of 18 months to two years. And so, you know, supply and demand, what are you gonna do?
Rena: Yeah.
Ashley: So that, I think it was very frustrating to just know that there are other people who are heterosexual couples that don't have to do that. And I think for us, luckily we have a very small circle that did know and one of my best friends who knew a heterosexual couple that was going through the process as well, just told me to advocate for myself and for us. And I was very hesitant because going up against an insurance company can be very challenging. And you are I think often met with ‘no’. So she really encouraged me to have RMA, you know, advocate for me because we were in round 7 at that time?
Amy: 6 or 7. Yeah.
Ashley: When I asked, I said, listen, we've been doing this month to month, you know, for quite some time now. Can we just please advocate? And if, if it weren't for her, I, we probably would've done the 12 rounds. But she really just pushed me to speak up, say something. And then that is when we finally were approved for IVF. But we didn't actually get the notification until round 10.
Amy: Yeah. It took almost 3 months or so. I mean the team at RMA was great. Doctor wrote the petition, the finance team was on top of it and they, you know, and they emailed us the moment that they received it. But you know, insurance companies can take their time doing what they need to do. And you know, lo and behold, amongst the, amongst all of it, we did discover that there were, there were active lawsuits out against, you know, not just our insurance company, but other insurance companies. It's, you know, it's very much a thing, whereas, you know, same sex and, and hetero couples having very different like requirements, you know, and it's like, well in some cases, like they're not paying for X, Y, and Z. Like, can, we can't just come up with the sperm. Right? Like, we are paying for this. And so, you know, kind of going through that process is, it just adds like a whole different level of things. The amount of time that she spent on the phone, they're like, I made sure every vitamin under the sun, all of the things that she needed to do and have at home, whatever were packed. But she took care of every, I don't think anybody understands the number of phone calls to CVS, especially pharmacy, right? And then to whatever cryobank that you use, right? They, you have to pay additional monies, right, to several hundred dollars, right? To get things shipped overnight because it has to be here and you don't, 'cause you don't know when your window is until the doctor's like, Nope. Now. Right. And then another, you know, $200 because you know, you have to get your over drill, get that shipped to your house again overnight and a special little bag, you know, under a special box. Like, and it's just a lot of coordination and a, a ton of phone calls just like it's on us to like make the phone calls and make sure it's like, okay, the doctor said to order, this is the, I don't even remember what the pa, the physician's order or whatever it is.
Ashley: I mean luckily they are very organized and it came in like a checklist. So again, being an educator, being a type A person, it worked out very well for me. I was very, you know, I was able to check things out very quickly.
Dara: But still it sounds like a another job that you had to
Ashley: Yes.
Dara: You know, on top of your day-today work, I think you had to be on the phones and be on it.
Ashley: I think that the egg retrieval process, actually the IVF process, I, I think had a little bit, a few more steps 'cause you have to do the mixing of medications and that component I left to my wife and the video watching I left to her. Yes. I'm like, we had to kind of just divvy up some of the, the work here and I'm like, well if I'm going to do this part, I need you to do this part. So she watched the video, she took care of mixing all the medications and all that and all like the heavy lifting for IVF, she definitely did. For IUI, I think I took care of a lot out of, you know, making sure that the medications were here on time. Those I thought were very easy. But once I got to the IVF and the egg retrieval component, she did a lot of that heavy lifting.
Rena: I love that, that you divvy up responsibility and I think that's super important. Something I talk about a lot with couples, either you know, same sex or or hetero, that how do you help the person who's not using their body feel involved in the process? Because a lot of times I think that person can feel extraneous or what's my role here? And then the other partner can feel like I'm doing everything. So I love that you were able to sort of divide and conquer so that you each took on some of the responsibility and then also both felt really involved.
Ashley: You can feel I think very like alone or like you're the one taking, you know, the brunt of it. But I do think that just in general, we work very well as a team so I know what I am good at and I knew that I could do some of the other, the other stuff. But I knew when it came down to mixing things and making sure that we had the right needles and how many of those needles do we have, I did not have that in me. So, you know, I was like, tag you're it. I'm, you know, tapping you in. It's your,
Rena: Yeah. It sounds like you're a great team though, and you both stepped up and you communicated really well.
Ashley: Yes. I think that it definitely huge in just like infertility journey in general, whatever that may look like for anybody is to have a supportive partner or have a supportive village. Whoever your village is, whether you're doing this by yourself, whether you're doing this with a partner, you need to have someone to just listen. They may not be able to understand what you're going through. My best friend who, you know, supported me in advocating and really pushed me, she hadn't gone through IUI or IVF, but just being able to listen and help and push me to do whatever it is that I needed to do, I think is important for anybody.
Rena: And it sounds like you also were really open to receiving it, you know, and I think sometimes a big part of accepting help, whether it's this realm or or another realm is being open to receiving and not pushing back and not being angry that you have to do this thing, right, that okay, I have to do this hard thing and I'm mad about it and then I'm gonna push away anything that's coming at me. And instead just saying like, okay, I accept that I'm here. This is a process, it's a journey and so I'm gonna receive the support. I'm gonna be able to sort of say, okay, this is really frustrating and difficult, but I see that the clinic is helping me. I see the clinic’s advocating for me. Like, they're not the ones saying that I need to do 12 rounds of this, so I'm not gonna project, you know, my anger onto them. I'm gonna figure out how to raise my voice advocate, get people on my side to help me.
Ashley: And I think it's really hard. It's really hard when you're like sitting on this side and you're working so hard for ultimately a baby, right? It's very hard to not get frustrated with, like, your doctors or your nurses because it's not, in our case, it wasn't them, it was, like, insurance and it was an external factor. But it is hard. It is hard. And I think that helped us throughout these past two years is just talking and communicating, but realizing when we needed to take a break. So we did take a few breaks in between rounds because it just got to be too much. It just got to be too much. In certain spaces where you're constantly waiting for a positive result and if it doesn't come, then you're waiting to call for a day 3. It takes a lot out of you. So I think just checking in with yourself, checking in with your partner, how are you doing? Are you okay? Do you wanna try again? And that's kind of what we also had to ask ourselves after the miscarriage as well. So if we were ready to do it again.
Rena: A lot of people always ask me like, how will I know when I'm ready again after a loss? Or how will I know when I should take a break? So how did you kind of know for both of those things?
Amy: We definitely, I feel like we could see it, like, collectively. Like we go in and maybe like 3 months in a row, right? And we took pictures and documented throughout the entirety. And I think you can even see the smile on our faces, like, fade a bit. And it's like, no, we need a minute. Right? And when it came to spaces around like holidays or we're both educators, so it got to a point we were taking a like a two week trip over the summer, we're like, we just need a minute. Like we're cool. We're gonna, we're gonna take the next two months to ourselves and just be people again and stop waiting on the, you know, the 2 week cycle. It's 10 days and 10 days and 10 days and just like, you know, continually waiting for things. It was nice to do that. And anytime if she said that she was good and she wanted to continue, then we're gonna continue. But if she questioned it at all, I was like, no, let's just take a break. It's cool. It's not going anywhere. And I do think that we did come back to the manager expectation statement multiple times. We're like, we are managing, we're gonna manage right now. Right? Like that's the thing that we're gonna do because it was important to do.
Rena: Yeah, totally.
Dara: It's great that the doctor said that, that, you know, in terms of managing your expectations and the fact that you listened to what felt right to you, you know, I can only imagine emotionally, physically, financially it could be really hard on yourself. So the fact that you took that time, as you said, to be yourself, to travel, I think it could be so consuming and it's important to have that downtime. So it's great that you did that.
Ashley: Right. I mean, you're constantly thinking about what I'm eating. Am I working out enough? Oh, if I have this drink, am I gonna be okay? What if I am preg- like, it's just like, you know, you can quickly, like, spiral out of control really in your own thoughts or go down a rabbit hole on the million and one things that could happen on if you're pregnant while you're waiting. So I think that in that sense, I don't know if there was just one thing that told me I needed a break or if it was just like a multitude of things just combined, I'm like, okay, I need, we need some time.
Rena: I think that's hard. I mean I think with taking breaks and a lot of people feel always sort of the like, you know, biological clock or time is running out. And I always say, well this is a really important question for your physician. Ask your physician if I take a month off, if I take two months, three months, how will that, if at all, impact my chances and my statistics have that conversation. That's the first place to start because either it'll come back like, yeah, you really need to keep going. You know, if you take a break it may really impact your chances or, no, totally take a break, reset, go away, come back. This is not gonna have any impact on you at all.
Ashley: After all of the tests that they run. They truly know if it is okay you can take a break or you can't. Right? So when we first started and we took all of our tests, everything was normal. So I just felt guilty sometimes in, like, taking a break because I know that you're delaying it, you know, but there's always a trade off. Right? And continuing to do something, even when you don't feel a hundred percent, is this really worth it at this moment? I know what my long-term goal is, but I think I also still need to take care of myself.
Rena: Well, I think it can be hard and maybe you can, you know, share some of your own experience with people is how do I exist in my present? How do I stay in my day to day and find joy, find gratitude, go on a trip, when knowing, like that feeling of, but my life is going to start when this, like when I have a baby, you know, when I get pregnant, whatever it is. And until then, sort of that's all I'm working for and I can't just be. And I think that that's what people really struggle with. And so I know, you know, I work with patients a lot on how to sort of make this a piece of your life, let it sort of receive it, put it in your life, but it's not the consuming thing about your life and you have to still live.
Ashley: Right. I think for us, like we traveled a lot, right? We spent a lot of time with friends and those are I think are some of our building blocks, right?, that we would want to share with our children. So for example, we did a road trip on the west coast. So we flew to Seattle and then made our way down and we got to see Yosemite, we went to Shasta, we stopped at San Diego, we went and saw the Sequoias and I was like, I'm so excited that we got to see this. I can't wait to share this with our child, you know, when we are pregnant. So like we got to experience so many things and now I'm just like, I can't wait to do them again. So it's very hard to be just stuck in this moment 'cause you want to do it and you wanna share this with your baby, right, when you are pregnant and when your baby is here earth-side. But now that I have experienced those things, just us two, I think about how special it's going to be and how much, like I think we'll all be able to appreciate it, right? And we talk a lot about, like, being able to travel as a family, right? So getting to experience them as a couple I think is equally as important, right? And also experiencing them as a family, as a squad, as a unit, as whatever you wanna call yourselves. Right? And I think that that is also important because I think sometimes what I've heard a lot of people say is like, your kids are gonna be like your number one. But something that we've talked about is that I don't see children as just being my top priority because if she's not well, our kids cannot be well. If I'm not well, our kids cannot be well. If we are not well, if we don't continue to grow and communicate, then neither will our kids. So it's not just about, our kid cannot be the end all, be all it. Like, we have to continue to pour in ourselves so we can pour into our child.
Dara: I love that.
Rena: Totally.
Dara: Self-care.
Ashley: I mean, and we don't have kids yet, but I do think a lot, I'm a teacher, she's a principal, and I think a lot about, in order to best serve my students, I need to also take care of myself. You know, just imagine what it would be like as a mom. Like I still need support into the things that make me happy. Make me whole, make us whole, make us a unit and make us function as well as we have for so long. So that way she will have a good example in her life as well. I mean….
Rena: So well said.
Ashley: You said earlier, like, you have kids, so I, I may be completely wrong, so
Rena: No, I couldn't agree more. And I, I think you're so right. I think, you know, I always say a mother's mental health or a father's mental health, whatever is the most important. Because if you don't have that, you can't give of yourself. And I know Dara can relate too, and it's certainly, especially as working parents, I think all of us will be, or, or are working moms, but it's hard to be able to balance everything. But asking for help, figuring out your own needs so that you can show up and be your best self for your kid, for your partner, for your colleagues, all the things is so important. And you know, I think mom guilt is real and, and feeling like you can't be in a million places at once. And it's definitely a balance. But I think that was so well said and so true.
Dara: Yeah. I think as, as women, we are known to be nurturers. A big part of our role is to nurture our children, but it's also to nurture ourselves. I love, I'm sure most people have heard this, but you know, the notion of you have to put on, you're in the airplane, you know, the oxygen mask before you go put it on your child. The same goes in life. I really do think it's important to make sure you're doing okay. And the fact that you collectively listened to yourselves, took that break, took that little space for yourselves, that is a little taste of what you can do down the road if you need that, that opportunity to kind of reset or, you know, get into a, a new environment and the fact now that you wanna, you know, bring your little one there and experience it in her eyes, it's so beautiful.
Ashley: I think it's gonna be a completely, you know, just different experience. Yeah. So we're very excited to share some of the things that we've experienced as a couple with her, you know, when she's here earth-side, whenever she's old enough and ready. I love,
Dara: I love that term earth-side.
Rena: Yeah, I love that. I think so many people could sort of start using that and start thinking about it that way. You know, I always tell people like, you already are a parent. You've started on this journey, you are already there. You're making choices. You know, just because you may not have a physical being yet all these choices that you're making, you are starting your journey. So keep a journal, right? This is part of your child's story. Whatever you're doing, wherever you're at in the process, maybe you've had one phone call, oh, nice. You know, maybe you've done 1 IUI, whatever. But I love that. And maybe the idea of like focusing on, okay, there's a star in the sky or the moon and like, that's my child, right? And that's them. They're up there. And so whether I travel wherever I am, you know, like they're up there, they're following me. And then, you know, when they come earth-side here they are. But they've, they've been a constant, they've been with you the whole journey. I love that.
Ashley: The one thing I think maybe that infertility has maybe, I don't know, I try not to think of it as like it taking the joy away, but I definitely do feel like I'm holding my breath a bit. I do think that the first 9 weeks I think I held my breath the entire time. Every appointment I was like, oh my God, is she okay? Is she okay? Even now, like we're 5 months pregnant, but I'm like, do you think she's okay in there? It's like a constant question because you don't know! My best friend who is a mom has shared that. She's like, you'll have a whole new set of worries. And I'm like, I can only imagine you'll have a, a complete new set of worries. Like we just need to make sure that, like, she's here. And I think that maybe, I don't know, maybe it'll be different when she's here.
Rena: Yeah. I think, you know, you had a loss too that's playing into this, right?
Ashley: You know, you hold your breath a lot afterwards because you just wanna make sure, like the first few weeks it's like, do you have a heartbeat? Then they count all their toes and their fingers and like, you know, so some of those things like, I'm very excited, but I'm also like, okay, you know, we have an appointment tomorrow. I'm like, everything's gonna be okay. And you know what I mean?
Amy: We have the 21 week full like anatomy scan tomorrow. So we talk like, you know, during, when you're at, so RMA is like a machine, right? Like,
Ashley: A very well-oiled machine.
Dara: Yeah. It's very organized.
Amy: Right? Like talk about like logistics, right? And like even like timeframes of the day and on like, you know, we are educators and we work at a place with really long days and so we were still able to, like, squeeze thing in and not have to take a tremendous amount of time off of work. I mean, and we went to a million appointments, right? And we're still able to make it work and kind of do the things, but it's the way that they're so systematic about, like, how and when certain times are allowed for us to at least know like, all right, this is when we're going into this thing. This is when you do this thing, this is when you go into this time.
Ashley: Seeing your baby every week for the first Yes. Up until like week nine is..it is amazing!
Amy: Okay, going through IVF you're spoiled. Yes. Because you go in every single week. And you get to see the little image on the screen and hear the heartbeat. And then they, you know, you get transferred off into the abyss and our OB is great and she was like, yeah, well like for the next like, you know, 12 weeks, so she's like, you just kind of cook. I, you know, I'll see you like once, once every 4. We're like what is that?
Dara: What? No weekly appointments?
Amy: Terrible! What are you talking about?
Ashley: Seeing the baby grow inside of you for the up until like week nine when they discharge you or you know, you graduate to your OB is wonderful. And I loved it and I definitely miss going. I understand why you don't need to, but it's very, very nice.
Rena: Yeah. And it becomes a security blanket and a tangible that it's still there and this, you know, positive conditioning after a lot of negative conditioning.So tell to rewire your brain to accept good news, positivity, all of that.
Ashley: Yeah. So, but I mean Dr. Friedenthal was wonderful and she was very like encouraging and also very supportive in those first few weeks in just making sure that I was okay, I was comfortable and everything looked normal.
Amy: Every, for her and her team took every single phone call no matter what time of day we called because something scary might happen and spotting and things like that. It's like, what is this? What is happening? Am I okay? Can I come in tomorrow? What? They're walk through like all of the steps. It's nice. Like we really could like call literally anytime of day and someone will get back to us within actual minutes.
Rena: Oh, that's great to hear.
Dara: It's good to have that reassurance, you know, especially when there's so many unknowns to know that you have some answers and some support. And it seems as though you also had great support with friends. Now that you're on this side, you know, discharge from RMA at your OBGYN, have you have any friends that are going through something similar and are you supporting them?
Ashley: So I didn't share on Insta until after we told our parents and it was very, I even told Amy I was very surprised with how many people DM’d me and said, thank you so much for sharing. Like, who are you seeing? I'm pregnant or we're working on trying to get pregnant and we haven't. Or I had a miscarriage and, and again I was very surprised because that's not something that you necessarily share with everyone, right? And I totally understand why some people do and some people choose not to. Right now, I have a high school acquaintance that we kind of have become more friendly, who went through a round of IUI with like medicated IUI and is, you know, now we've been talking and just, she's, she's very much like, thank you so much for your support and it's someone that she has that understands the process. And I'm like, of course, no problem. She's like, well I'm feeling this, did you feel this or, and I was like, yeah, everything's gonna be okay. You're gonna see your doctor and like, just trying to make sure that I also stay positive and, but we check in a lot with each other and I was, you know, very surprised. But also, it's nice to have someone that is going through the same process as you. So I think I found that to be just nice to have
Amy: Another one of my friends literally had her transfer today, so, you know, it's fingers crossed for her. But same thing, her and her partner, like whatever, you know, several weeks ago when they were doing the retrieval, both right before they started, they were like, I watched the videos but hold on, like literally, you know, call or FaceTime or be like, can you send me the video of you administering? Right? Because we literally did, we did like the time lapse videos every single time.
Ashley: That is how we shared with our parents was yeah, we took videos the entire time because I wasn't ready to share with our parents that we were going through the process.
Amy: Yeah. We did not tell them.
Ashley: Because I can't manage my expectations and their expectations. So we just could not, I could not do it as she probably could have, but I knew that I could not
Amy: As well as well-meaning as they are. You know, understanding the level of overbearing and it's like, it's like I, I just can't like, talk to you about like, it was, it was a lot for us to even manage our own emotions to be able to manage our mothers’ emotions on top of that. So anything to tell me this month? No, no. I don't, I don't, I have nothing to tell you. So like we just, we just spoke nothing of it. Like, we did not tell 'em about it, but our friends, like, I've literally gotten, you know, we had text messages and be like, Hey, did you do this? Hey, our doctor told us this. Have you done this? Like, or did you do that during the process? Like, and I think just like that little network has definitely been very powerful. It's been super helpful I think for us and for our friends.
Ashley: Yes. Our friend who referred us to RMA, she's the one that actually told me that when we do the progesterone shots, ice your butt. And that was the best piece of advice I think I've got for IVF because
Amy: It's a big needle.
Ashley: It is a big needle. But I do think that even watching the video, I remember the buildup, the anxiety that I felt like I could see it. And I worked myself up and I remember I started crying and then she did it. And then I turned around and, and you can see the just the change, my demeanor changed and I was like, oh, that's it?
Yeah. The relief on her face when she realized that she couldn't feel it because I had sat on an ice pack for 20 minutes before we did the injection and we did that literally every single day for whatever the 7, 8 weeks.
Rena: That’s a great tip.
Ashley: I think you realize…
Dara: I wish I would've known!
Ashley: It works!
Amy: It did work.
Ashley: I realized that in the IVF process of this journey, I think I was very anxious, very nervous, did not want to do the progesterone shots. I didn't think I could do it. But now in retrospect, looking back, I mean hindsight's always, you know, 2020. But I realize how strong I am and not just like physically, but like mentally and emotionally. Like I'm like, wow, like I did that. I, I did that and we did that. Again, you're in awe of at what your body can do, but also like what you can do as well. And I don't think that I knew that about myself and I'm like, if I did that, I can do this. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of like also what I have told. I'm like if I'm like, you can totally do it, you can do it. The first one might be, you know, a little bit, but you can totally do it.
Amy: Every step of the way. We'd be like, well it, this is tough. Right? And every single time we get to a new step we're like, why is it, it just keeps getting harder. Like everything, it's like it's more needles, it's more this. Right? Like everything that you do before the transfer is just actual insanity. Right? Like the Or not even before the transfer, during the the retrieval. I mean the amount we went through it during Thanksgiving and so like, it was ridiculous. And of course throughout the entirety of it we had to continue to keep coming into RMA. We do not live in the City, we live in New Jersey and we literally had to come in on the morning of Macy's Day Parade and like park the car on one side of town and walk across because the cops are down the one side, right? And like doing all the back and forth and again, like to the point of them like answering the phone? At one point we were like, nope, we need to wait one more day before we do this. And we're like, we don't have one more day worth of drugs. And they're like, you can, you can go to whatever 86th, it's open till 8:00 PM Just another trip into the city. But at least like they had right? There was always a, there was always a place they were like, Nope, we can get you the thing. Like, and so just being very supportive throughout the entirety, it was ridiculous.
Rena: That’s a lot. I think though when I was talking about this with someone earlier today though, you know, once when you're in this right, it's really hard to see that there's an out in another side and it's sort of I think easy to get sucked into the mentality of like, why me when you're out of it or any challenge in like, you know, it's not the easy times in life that push us to grow because it's easy. Why do we need to? But it's the challenges in life that shape us and they make us, you know, 'cause we can either, right? You can sort of be a victim and why me? And or you can say okay, like, I'm gonna problem solve, I'm gonna pick myself up. I'm gonna find gifts throughout this process where I can, whether it's to supportive friends, you know. It sounds like your partnership was amazing communication and working together and can I laugh about this? You know, have to go into the city the day of Macy's Day Parade. Like, one of the worst, worst days to have to come in and just staff, you know, can I find those things and how can I grow from this challenge can make me or break me?
Ashley: Yeah. I think I'm a special education teacher and I think one thing that I always tell my kids is that they need to learn how to advocate for themselves. And I think that one of the things that they take away from that is that they need to learn how to ask for help. And I've learned that it's not just asking for help. And I learned that in this process it's asking for what it is that I need at that time and I now have a better understanding of what now they think I'm telling them and what they're hearing. So it's no, it's, I need you to ask for what it is that you need at that time, whatever that may look like. And I learned that I needed to do that for myself. It's not just asking for help. So I think that's definitely one of my biggest takeaways and how it's not just in this bubble but it also impacts the other com like other parts of my life as well.
Rena: That's a beautiful takeaway.
Dara: Beautiful.
Rena: Do you have any other, you know, advice for any other couples about to embark on this journey or in this journey?
Amy: I mean I think the thing that we keep telling one of our friends is right we do. I mean we've got someone who just got married right? And they of course already have, you know, all the moms in their life asking about, oh when you guys gonna have a baby? When are you gonna do this? When are you gonna do that? Right? And that there's this pressure obviously like on couples to do that. And the thing that we keep repeating is like, no, just go save up your money. Go do the thing that it is that you wanna do right now. Find the next big step. Like you're gonna be able to get through that thing because you need the experiences together as a couple, right? Like….
Ashley: A solid foundation
Amy: Say, like, the peaks are great, the highs are great, but like the valleys, they are low, right? And they are deep. And the only way that you can get yourself up out of those spaces is if you actually have those connections and those memories and all the foundation to like build together in that space. I do think it's very important it is to stop and like remember like the little things. We do have a journal. The journal is actually to each other. So we write to each other. It's not all the time, it's
Dara: I love that.
Amy: It's not even every week. It's just when one of us is so moved to, right? And so we'll like write to each other. Sometimes it's, it was about great stuff and other days they were not great days. Right? Yeah. And so it was like, it was a space for us to just even be able to write it and document it and remember that like we've had those days. We've also had the other good days too. And to keep 'em back.
Rena: That's beautiful.
Dara: So nice to see your connection and I love that you're giving this message of really making sure you have this good foundation in your partner, creating this community of people to help support you, to advocate for what you want and be specific in what you want. And I love also how like not only in this process, you're also learning in your job, in your career, how to even change the way you were teaching the kids. I mean that in itself is, is beautiful too.
Ashley: Yeah. I mean it's definitely been quite a journey but I do think, like, as hard as it's been, it's been a beautiful journey. It's allowed us to continue to grow, allow us to continue to work on our communication and evolve, right, as individuals, but also, like, as a team. And I think it's just made us stronger. But yes, it's allowed us to take it in and also work through what we needed to work through like during this journey 'cause It has definitely, you know, been challenging.
Amy: We each, we each agreed to have a person outside of our relationship to talk to about this. Like, 'cause we didn't tell many people we were going through the process. So it's like, you know, my friend who has their, their little guy and her very good friend and they're from completely ends, you know, different ends of the spectrum but like, you know, we could, but like some days like I don't wanna make her feel guilty because of how I, like I've gotta have my person to talk to, right? And she's gotta have her person to talk to. And then, you know, we always had a friend in the middle who was just there for good comedic relief, right? Where we can tell them about, like, the the going to Macy's Day Parade, the like her parents know now, but we totally lied to them. Right. And like told them that like she had diabetes just in case they saw the needles.
Dara: And that's not gonna scare them.
Rena: My god!
Ashley: It really did! My dad and my mom were so pale in the throat face. They said, oh my gosh, they were so worried. And I'm like, it was like they thought I was going to die. I was like, no guys, I'm fine. Like I'm totally good!
Amy: Because like we, we like we're talking like the day after. It's like they stayed over with us when we're going through like that week of Thanksgiving. Right? And so like they're over at the house and it's like, it looks a little suspect that we don't have work but we're driving into the city at 7:00 AM Right? So we have a live having to go check on a friend's cat, right? Oh. And the next day I forget what it was and then the like, so then we got to the point where it was like there was a second thing later in the day and that when I had to go back again in the evening after we had just gone in the morning and it's like how are we gonna recover from this one? Right? So we had like the just in case lie about like okay if they ask about the needles, if they see the thing like giant red needle boxes, I mean underneath like the medicine cabinets in the house, like, you know, they're gonna see something.
Ashley: It's definitely to each his own. If you wanna share with your family that's that we're saying share with your family if you want to. We were just not ready to, that
Rena: But that’s not your path. That's funny. I like how you had the, the lot and the backup lot just in case and you tell your parents you have diabetes, like that's gonna make everything fine and they're not gonna ask you questions about that!
Ashley: I’m glad they can laugh about it now and they're totally okay now and you know, it's fine. But they were definitely very concerned over Thanksgiving and the holidays. Oh my gosh. Yes.
Rena: Well definitely a Thanksgiving to remember, that's for sure.
Ashley: Oh yes, yes, absolutely. And
Rena: Diabetes, you had to drive in the city like a whole, the parade.
Ashley: It was great 'cause we did document it all. So when we did put it together they were like, wait a second. And I was like, yep. Now it all like made sense, you know? It was great that we did document it. It was good to like look back on when we shared the news with them. So yes.
Rena: Must have been fun to watch them compute and start to put the pieces together. Like, wait a second. So this didn't actually happen, this didn't actually happen and I see now what was transpiring and to watch them kind of process that.
Ashley: Yes, for sure. Even we took a pregnancy test at her mom's house in Florida. I took a trigger shot while my parents were in the living room. I mean there were so many, like, things that I'm like, yeah, you guys were in the living room. This is why the camera's facing this way as opposed to this way in all of the other videos.
Amy: Because everything is refrigerated.
Ashley: It's all facing the fridge except dirt and videos. Oh, yep. It's just
Rena: Think about the things you might have been hiding when you were a teenager and now you're still hiding from your parents as an adult.
Dara: Makes for a great TV show. Oh my gosh. I would totally watch it.
Amy: Well, not even that, like we did plan a trip to Colorado. So after like we had found out we were pregnant, but we were only like 6weeks in. Oh yes. And so we were still on progesterone shots right? So like we had to look up like all of like, how do I get through security with these at TSA, right? Like doing all of those things. And then at the same time, like things are supposed to happen at the same time every day we're moving into a different time zone and where are we gonna be at each point in time? So like the one, like she comes off the plane, we had gotten a bag of ice from the, the stewardess and you know, comes off the plane and she's got wet leggings on, right? Because like the ice started to melt. 'cause We knew we had a transfer, right? So as soon as we got off the flight, we literally went into a family bathroom, set up the camera. So in like airport bathroom, gotta do the progesterone shot 'cause that's the time, right? And then on the way back, legit at a McDonald's bathroom before we got to the airport…
Ashley: I will say this is when it comes in handy that we are at same sex because we were able to
Amy: You know, a little less suspect walking into the bathroom together.
Ashley: My god, listen, like Dr. Friedenthal recommended when we did our transfer, she said, watch something funny. You have to laugh at some of these things. If you don't, it's going to be very, very hard to like get through. I don't think any of these situations where I ideal. No, I don't wanna do a progesterone shot ever again in the McDonald's bathroom. But these are all the things that you do, right? Because this is where like, this is what we're in the process of. And you left off
Rena: And I love you did that though, and you lived your life. You didn't let this stop you.
Ashley: Yes. At that point we were like too far in like stop what we were doing. Yep. So, but overall you have to find a joy in some of these things together because they are funny and you know, you're just, you're going to get through it. You definitely are.
Rena: I think those are all great points. Yeah. You have to laugh and you can't let this control you. You can't let this stop you from traveling, stop you from living life and like it's about rolling with it. Okay. McDonald's bathroom. Here we go. Airport bathroom. Let's do it.
Ashley: Yes, yes.
Rena: Well, you two seem like just most best fun couple ,individuals, educators, soon to be parents, maybe sort of, what's the word? Manipulative might be too, too harsh. Daughters conniving. You seem like just the best and it's such a joy to have you on and thank you for sharing your story both with humor and real emotion, which I think really sort of accurately captures what this journey is, right?
Ashley: Yes, for sure. Thank you so much.
Dara: Such a remarkable story and how we like to end our podcast is with words of gratitude, both of you. What are you grateful for at this very moment today?
Ashley: I am grateful for my partner. I wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah. It's, it's a lot of the teamwork. So I'm very, very thankful for her and I'm grateful to have time off to spend with my baby. I'm very looking forward to spending time with her when she's here earth-side. But I also know what a privilege that is. I think the gratitude that I feel is not just, I'm thankful for time, but I'm thankful that I had the opportunity and the means to go to RMA and to get the, you know, to go through IVF and IUI as many rounds as we did because I know how much of a privilege it is for us to be able to do that. Because I know a lot of people who are in our situation have not been able to do that. So I know it's a privilege and I'm very, very thankful to have been able to do that.
Dara: Beautiful.
Amy: Yeah. I mean I'm very grateful to my wife. I told her I felt awful every time she's a pin cushion for two years, you know, going through that and I, I know that it's not fun and it was very challenging and there's a lot of even additional things that occurred along the way and it, it's hard and we couldn't, you know, I couldn't have done it without you and we couldn't have done it without our friends. I'm very grateful for our, our friend group there. They're really amazing people that really got us through and were able to like lend an ear when we needed it. And at the same time, like on days that they're like buck up or, you know, whatever the case may be or you know, no that don't stand for that. Go do that thing instead. Right? Like go speak up for yourself. I'm legitimately thankful for Dr. Friedenthal. She is dope.
Ashley: She's the woman. Okay.
Amy: She's such a great doctor.
Ashley: The embryologists also get credit. I know that they don't get enough credit. The embryologist also get credit!
Rena: Love that. Shout out to the embryologist. Totally
Ashley: Chris! Yep. Chris did his thing. So, oh goodness. But thank you guys so much for this wonderful opportunity.
Rena: Well, we're so happy to have you on Dara, what are you grateful for today?
Dara: I'm grateful for that new term I'm gonna use now, earth-side. I think that's brilliant. I it's a first for me and also, you know, now it's the end of the school year and both of you are teachers and faculty members. So I wanna honor you. I'm grateful for all that you do. I mean, I have two IVF babies, two girls in school, and I know when they're not at home I know that they are safe and they are loved and boarded by their teachers and faculty members. So I'm just grateful for what you guys do, what you know, everyone who is in the school system does for kids. So thank you. What about you Rena?
Rena: I will say, I wanna say I'm grateful for laughter. I, so much of my work was really heavy and so this was such a great reminder. Just laughing during the day at work, I wanna say is fairly rare for me. And so this, I'm so grateful for laughter and levity and being able to just recognize things for that. And and then of course I'll piggyback on Dara and say I'm grateful for you as, as educators as my daughter is also in school another IVF October baby.
Ashley: Wow. Wow. That's exciting. October, what is she a libra or scorpio?
Rena: Scorpio. But what is your projected?
Ashley: Our baby is actually due on my best friend's birthday, so the best friend who pushed me to advocate for myself.
Dara: Oh, that's nice.
Ashley: Her birthday
Rena: Oh, that's good. October baby. Yeah. So, but grateful for you for, for educating and I know it's such, such hard and sometimes thankless work and, and I think too, I will say being an educator and doing fertility treatment I think is particularly very difficult because of the lack of flexibility in your job. And when you do have to take time off that everyone notices And so it's very hard to do that under the radar, unlike some other jobs where people are remote or they're more flexible. So really I think that's another sort of added element of the stress that you went to, went through. So thank you so much.
Dara: Thank you so much again for both being on sharing your remarkable story and we are both wishing you all the best for what's to come down the road.
Dara: Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember: practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember: you are not alone. Find us on Instagram @fertility_forward. And if you're looking for more support, visit us atwww.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.